Does my pickup sound like crap? (Video: iBeam in a D-18)

[ba4x]

A couple weeks ago I picked up an old 1960 Martin D-18 (NGD post) which I'm very happy about. It came with an LR Baggs iBeam pickup installed.

I've always liked my acoustic guitars without any sort of electronics in them, and I'm tempted to pull it out. Of course I want to respect the guitar and not rush modifying anything. And if the pickup sounds any good, why get rid of it? Well, it sounds like crap to me. What do you guys think?

I keep reading all these great reviews of the iBeam and how "natural" it sounds. To me, it sounds like my head's been wrapped in bubble warp and I'm suffocating while sinking to the bottom of a lake. You can't even tell there's a nice guitar in there. It sounds like a dodgy computer simulation of acoustic guitar. Plastic-wrapped is the word that comes to mind.

Is this just how these pickups sound? Sometimes when listening to a live performer I'll get the same Saran Wrap vibe (see Billy String's live sound). Maybe it can be shifted around to sound better, or needs to be treated with a pedal/preamp/EQ. Maybe I'm too far in my own head. Really I'm just looking for some confirmation so I can pull the thing out...

Here's an A/B video I made with a small diaphragm condenser mic as the comparison. The mic and pickup are straight into my audio interface, no EQ or effects.

[turfguy]

Awesome old Martin you have there, buddy!!! I’m not a huge fan of UST pickups and your video kinda sums that up. However, if you are playing with a band, it will probably give you the most volume and feedback control. I am partial to a K&K, but have just made a decision to try an Anthem(ust/microphone combo)in my Martin. The moral of the story is, it’s all about what you like to hear when you are playing, which is my opinion and worth exactly what you paid for it.

[ba4x]

Originally Posted by turfguy

Awesome old Martin you have there, buddy!!! I’m not a huge fan of UST pickups and your video kinda sums that up. However, if you are playing with a band, it will probably give you the most volume and feedback control. I am partial to a K&K, but have just made a decision to try an Anthem(ust/microphone combo)in my Martin. The moral of the story is, it’s all about what you like to hear when you are playing, which is my opinion and worth exactly what you paid for it.

Thanks turfguy! Appreciate the feedback. The pickup in this guitar is actually a bridge plate pickup - the unit is adhered to the bridge plate, not under the saddle. This fact contributes to the glowing reviews, upping expectations... In truth I think the iBeam is an older system and this one may have been installed hastily, I hear they are sensitive to the mounting position.

That Anthem system sounds promising! I think what I miss in the pickup sound is the real texture that only a microphone can get. So hopefully you'll strike a balance there and get something really satisfying!

[cliff_the_stiff]

Originally Posted by turfguy

Awesome old Martin you have there, buddy!!! I’m not a huge fan of UST pickups and your video kinda sums that up. However, if you are playing with a band, it will probably give you the most volume and feedback control. I am partial to a K&K, but have just made a decision to try an Anthem(ust/microphone combo)in my Martin. The moral of the story is, it’s all about what you like to hear when you are playing, which is my opinion and worth exactly what you paid for it.

I decided last nigh after plugging in my Pluginable guitars that everything sounds bad. Didn’t like the internal mics or USTs on my DTAR or Fishman, or k&k.
External Mic’d sounds better to me. If in a band, Probably no choice but to plug in.

[Petty1818]

It’s quite possible that you just don’t like the sound of SBT style pickups. Granted, they are not all the same but you referenced Billy Strings who uses the K&K and an internal mic. The k&k can sound amazing but it definitely does have a unique tone that the Ibeam also somewhat shares. They both have their own thing going on but I find they share a similar mid range.

If I were you, I would try putting something like the k&k in there and use a Tonedexter to create a wavemap. I would say leave the ibeam but I believe they are somewhat feedback prone. More so than most SBT’s. The Anthem is great but the UST portion could alter the unplugged tone and I wouldn’t try that on a 1960 guitar.

[rockabilly69]

Originally Posted by ba4x

A couple weeks ago I picked up an old 1960 Martin D-18 (NGD post) which I'm very happy about. It came with an LR Baggs iBeam pickup installed.

I've always liked my acoustic guitars without any sort of electronics in them, and I'm tempted to pull it out. Of course I want to respect the guitar and not rush modifying anything. And if the pickup sounds any good, why get rid of it? Well, it sounds like crap to me. What do you guys think?

I keep reading all these great reviews of the iBeam and how "natural" it sounds. To me, it sounds like my head's been wrapped in bubble warp and I'm suffocating while sinking to the bottom of a lake. You can't even tell there's a nice guitar in there. It sounds like a dodgy computer simulation of acoustic guitar. Plastic-wrapped is the word that comes to mind.

Is this just how these pickups sound? Sometimes when listening to a live performer I'll get the same Saran Wrap vibe (see Billy String's live sound). Maybe it can be shifted around to sound better, or needs to be treated with a pedal/preamp/EQ. Maybe I'm too far in my own head. Really I'm just looking for some confirmation so I can pull the thing out...

Here's an A/B video I made with a small diaphragm condenser mic as the comparison. The mic and pickup are straight into my audio interface, no EQ or effects.

I vote for yank it out! I hated the iBeam in every guitar I've put it in.

[Chipotle]

I've always liked my acoustic guitars without any sort of electronics in them

Should we take this to mean you don't play live? If not, and your other guitars I assume don't have electronics (or you don't use them), why would you want to keep the iBeam? If you have no need to plug in, take it out.

No piezo pickup, under saddle or soundboard, will give you the same sound as mic'ed. They all have more or less of that "characteristic" quacky sound, although some are better than others. You can really improve things with a ToneDexter or other IR pedal if you like. But a pickup is really designed for playing out, where you need to balance tone with other factors like feedback resistance and stage mobility.

[ba4x]

Thanks for the feedback guys, I appreciate the insight!

Yes, that's right, I don't perform live. Sometimes if jamming at a friends house with a drum kit, it makes sense to plug in, but that's a rare occurrence.

I was more interested in calibrating my expectations for the iBeam. I've had cheaper guitars with under-saddle pickups that sounded better (in my opinion), but those had built in preamps that may have done some of the necessary tweaking.

I'll order the plug from StewMac and plan to take it out!

[M Hayden]

Maybe it’s not positioned well. I’ve got A passive iBeam in an OM and it’s got a lot of clear high end. I use it through one of a couple of older preamps - RANE AP-13, Raven Labs PMB-1 - and it usually sounds great.

In order to do that I had to shift it towards the treble side a bit, which definitely helped.

[DesertTwang]

I just have to ask: have you actually been to Billy Strings live performances? I'm not asking to be snarky, but the fact that you compare his amplified sound to yours surprised me. Perhaps you have only seen recordings...? To me, Billy has one of the best sounding amplified acoustic guitars I know of. So much so that I waited around after his shows to talk to his sound guy and ask him what his secret was.

The amplified sound of the guitar on hand, however, is indeed nothing to write home about, I completely agree with you on that. You may want to try out a bunch of different preamps and some equilizing, as that may help. I am not familiar with that particular pickup. My recommendation, if you find the Baggs doesn't suit you but you still want something that sounds decent, give the HFN Schatten a try. The install is easy and reversible.

[Silly Moustache]

Originally Posted by ba4x

A couple weeks ago I picked up an old 1960 Martin D-18 (NGD post) which I'm very happy about. It came with an LR Baggs iBeam pickup installed.

I've always liked my acoustic guitars without any sort of electronics in them, and I'm tempted to pull it out. Of course I want to respect the guitar and not rush modifying anything. And if the pickup sounds any good, why get rid of it? Well, it sounds like crap to me. What do you guys think?

I keep reading all these great reviews of the iBeam and how "natural" it sounds. To me, it sounds like my head's been wrapped in bubble warp and I'm suffocating while sinking to the bottom of a lake. You can't even tell there's a nice guitar in there. It sounds like a dodgy computer simulation of acoustic guitar. Plastic-wrapped is the word that comes to mind.

Is this just how these pickups sound? Sometimes when listening to a live performer I'll get the same Saran Wrap vibe (see Billy String's live sound). Maybe it can be shifted around to sound better, or needs to be treated with a pedal/preamp/EQ. Maybe I'm too far in my own head. Really I'm just looking for some confirmation so I can pull the thing out...

Here's an A/B video I made with a small diaphragm condenser mic as the comparison. The mic and pickup are straight into my audio interface, no EQ or effects.

hi,

The acoustic guitar -is an "acoustic" instruments and all the many and various internal electronic amplifying gubbins on the market turn the instruments into "electric" or "electro" guitars - with an electric sound.

We all ramble n on this and other fora, about the tonewoods, the makers and the subtle differences of young and old and fine acoustic guitars and whether strings, bridge pins, finishes and such will affect the acoustic sound. ... but plug it is and it sounds .... like an electric guitar!

We have to accept that most of our audiences will not perceive much of a difference, like they'll perceive little difference between a Zager or a prewar Martin, but we will.

As far as "needing" to plug in - it depends on the accompanying instruments and the size of the venue etc.
If you are playing with electric bass, drums, electric lead guitars etc., then the acoustic sound is probably relatively unimportant, and is often just strummed/scrubbed as a background drone.

If you are playing with other acoustic instruments, then you may be able to get a real acoustic sound from a good external mic.

A few "high dollar" folk (James Taylor, Jackson Browne etc) maybe who can get the technology and the technicians to make their instruments sound natural, but it is a rarity frankly.

You video when using the mic told me the tone of your gutar and that your strings were dead. the pick up signal gave me a sound that resembles a "generic" guitar sound (which to many punters may be acceptable).

Afterthought: In 1999 I spent more than twice what I'd ever doe on a new Collings dreadnought.
I took it to my local tech to have "the best possible" pick-up installed, which, they told me was the Lloyd Baggs Dual source. Whilst my old friend Ian (the Tech) was installing it, the owner of the shop said to me -

"That is a very fine guitar - probably the finest I've seen in here, but no matter how good the best pick-up we fit into it - it'll never sound like that guitar sounds unplugged! - If I were you, I'd forget the pick up and buy something like a Takamine for plugging in".

At the time I thought he was just tying to sell me another guitar, but now I agree with him.

[ChrisE]

That guitar sounds great.

Your playing is great.

The pickup? Well....my mom always said, “If you can’t say something nice...”

Either take it out and get something that sounds better, or just leave it in and never plug it in again. Or take it out completely.

If you really need one, I like K&K Pure Mini and Baggs Lyric. Lyric sounds best to me but K&K doesn’t need a battery.

[Todd123]

If you have to ask...It means there's a question in your mind and I think you already know the answer. The guitar sounds great but the pick up is uh, uh, terrible. Let's not mince words.
I have k & k's in my guitars and that seems to be the best thing at the moment I'm playing around with the town Dexter jury's out. You've got good ears they've already told you the answer. I suggest you look at k&k.

[SpruceTop]

I think the iBeam in your Martin sounds decent and would sound even better if its gain was a closer match to the mic's louder gain. Also, add in a little more treble EQ and it would sound better in the higher frequencies i.e., it would make these frequencies sound airier like the mic. I think the ibeam you've got is usable for live performance but be careful of feedback.

[kaos]

Yank it. I bought a custom D18 that came with an iBeam. It was horrible. Put in a K&K ... soooo much better! Not all SBTs are the same.