Schatten HFN Passive verses Schatten HFN Active Pickups

[BT55]

I have a Taylor 420 coming in that is not amplified. All of my guitars have active OEM or aftermarket active pickups. Since the Schatten is getting such good feedback I’m thinking that I’d give it a try. Has anyone compared the HFN Active vs. Passive models?

[guitaniac]

GuitarLuva currently has the passive model (or two, I believe) and has an active system on order. If no one else can give you a comparison, you may want to bump this thread back to the top of page 1 in a few weeks.

[GuitarLuva]

Originally Posted by guitaniac

GuitarLuva currently has the passive model (or two, I believe) and has an active system on order. If no one else can give you a comparison, you may want to bump this thread back to the top of page 1 in a few weeks.

This is correct I have the Artist version on order and probably won't have it for another couple of weeks. I did ask the owner (les) if there's any difference between the passive and active tonally and apparently there isn't.

You kinda have to decide for yourself if you want a very invasive install with no batteries or volume/tone controls that may require an external preamp or have volume and tone controls at your fingertips with a battery inside. The Artist version I ordered can be phantom powered, it's a little more expensive than the basic active version but can also power a 2nd pickup.

[BT55]

GuitarLuva thanks for the response. I have two guitars with battery bags - an Emerald (offset sound hole) and a Voyage-Air (folding neck) so battery changes do not require loosening strings on either guitar. Since there’s no sound difference between the active and passive I’m probably going for the active system even though it will be a pain to access the battery.

[GuitarLuva]

Originally Posted by BT55

GuitarLuva thanks for the response. I have two guitars with battery bags - an Emerald (offset sound hole) and a Voyage-Air (folding neck) so battery changes do not require loosening strings on either guitar. Since there’s no sound difference between the active and passive I’m probably going for the active system even though it will be a pain to access the battery.

No problem! I have 2 Emeralds now and my trusty Gibson. My X30 came with the Anthem which I removed but recently put back. It's not staying though. I ordered the Schatten HFN Artist to install in my X20. For what it's worth I don't have an issue reaching the battery in the X30.

[martingitdave]

The blessing and curse of Schatten HFN is that it adds a sense of "air" to the signal. This is great because most piezos that are flat discs, or under a saddle, cannot add that. The curse is that you don't know how much air and highs you're going to get until it's in the guitar and you plug it in. I tried gluing my passive HFN. When I EQ'd it, it sounded lovely. Here's the BUT. But, if you intend to take your passive HFN to an open mic and plug it in without a preamp, you don't know what you're going to get. If you control the PA, it's no problem. So, for that reason, I recommend using the active version with the tone control. That way you can roll off the highs to tune it to whatever PA you are plugged in.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

The blessing and curse of Schatten HFN is that it adds a sense of "air" to the signal. This is great because most piezos that are flat discs, or under a saddle, cannot add that. The curse is that you don't know how much air and highs you're going to get until it's in the guitar and you plug it in. I tried gluing my passive HFN. When I EQ'd it, it sounded lovely. Here's the BUT. But, if you intend to take your passive HFN to an open mic and plug it in without a preamp, you don't know what you're going to get. If you control the PA, it's no problem. So, for that reason, I recommend using the active version with the tone control. That way you can roll off the highs to tune it to whatever PA you are plugged in.

That hasn't been my experience. I wonder how much of this has to do with the super glue impacting the tone? I am sure Les went the tape/putty route for a reason. I think about the K&K mandolin pickup for example. With that one, tape is used and not super glue. I think in some cases direct contact is not always the most desirable method.

I find the HFN needs little eq. Maybe a cut in the highs but my Taylor is bright to begin with. In terms of it being passive, it has a strong signal, definitely close to the K&K. I do think that active systems are probably always a good method whenever you don't have full control over your sound. I had thought about going that route but the passive is just so nice and simple that I will probably stick with it.

[GuitarLuva]

Yeah there's pros and cons to both active and passive. You can't go wrong with either though but you need to be prepared. The HFN passive is the first passive pickup that I had for years, last one being a K&K, and I'm definitely digging the benefits to just plug in and play. If you're going out into the unknown the active version is certainly safer in that regard, but I would just take the cheap but effective Behringer ADI21 with me just in case I needed a boost. If you know what you're always going to be plugging into, an acoustic amp for example, than you can get by without a preamp.

[martingitdave]

I agree with the above two replies. I think we are all saying the same thing. I would add that rolling off the highs on HFN passive is important with tape. But it’s absolutely essential with glue.

[guitaniac]

The alternate approach to dealing with random stage environments is to pair a passive pickup with a good outboard preamp. I really like using my Zoom A3 outboard preamp. It has two digital EQs (a six band graphic and a two band parametric) which can be used in series at home to set and store the EQ adjustments needed for optimum tonal balance when listening on headphones or through a PA with a flat frequency response. In addition to the digital EQ sections, it also has a manual three band EQ which can be used for any "quick and dirty" EQ adjustments needed on stage.

Beyond the EQ options, the A3 also has a volume knob control which is smoother and more precisely adjustable than any volume wheel or slider I've encountered with a onboard system. For those reasons (EQ and more precise volume adjustment) I'd rather be using the A3 in conjunction with a passive pickup than just be using an onboard active system. Its a little more inconvenient to set up, but the pluses outweigh to minuses for me.

[The Kid!]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

But, if you intend to take your passive HFN to an open mic and plug it in without a preamp, you don't know what you're going to get.

I bring either a Red Eye pre or a Tech 21 Q-Strip. An Empress ParaEQ could work as well as many others. The Red Eye and Q-Strip can be battery powered.

[hotroad]

I disagree that the HFN passive has a strong signal. At least its not strong enough to work with the BOSE S1 without a preamp. I assume this is the case for other amps as well. It does work with my Fishman amps just fine. I use a preamp, of which there are hundreds on the market, to boost the signal into my S1. That also provides some eq for the HFN. There are preamps that work fine for this purpose that are very small and inexpensive and can even be worn on the belt or guitar strap if one doesn't want a foot pedal.

[guitaniac]

Originally Posted by hotroad

I disagree that the HFN passive has a strong signal. At least its not strong enough to work with the BOSE S1 without a preamp. I assume this is the case for other amps as well. It does work with my Fishman amps just fine. I use a preamp, of which there are hundreds on the market, to boost the signal into my S1. That also provides some eq for the HFN. There are preamps that work fine for this purpose that are very small and inexpensive and can even be worn on the belt or guitar strap if one doesn't want a foot pedal.

I looked at the S1 manual, but can't find any spec for the gain available at a channel's 1/4" input. Do you have any idea what available gain is, or what the input impedance is?

There seems to be some anecdotal evidence that the Baggs Synapse system may also not have enough gain to provide optimum gain for some passive HFN rigs. (The Synapse channel's 1/4" input has a max gain of 26dB.)

[The Kid!]

Originally Posted by hotroad

I disagree that the HFN passive has a strong signal.

It's not strong. It's weaker than the K&K, and it definitely benefits using a preamp with it. I can get enough volume out of it on my mixer alone, but I prefer to use the pre on my pedal board.

[GuitarLuva]

I guess signal strength is relative. The passive HFN output is stronger than the Anthem SL in the same guitar for me, not by much mind you but noticable.