Debate with friend about my recent Eastman purchase

[junkyard]

I think it's in pretty poor taste for the "friend" to even share his/her opinion in this case.

[roylor4]

Many people will seek to devalue other people and their possessions to feel elevated themselves. I think that is sad.

[lar]

fyi

If the original L-00s were $28 in the 1930s, then they would be ~$500 today, adjusting for inflation.

[Scolaguitar]

Originally Posted by Archsas

I don't know, I think there's more to the discussion than that. Zeo's friend isn't just saying that he wouldn't buy an Eastman because he doesn't like the sound/prefers something else/etc., he seems to be saying that the Zeo's purchase inherently wasn't worth making because instruments made in China aren't worth what he paid for it, presumably because they're not high enough quality. To me, that's more than a simple difference of opinion, it's a statement about the ability of a company to produce a quality instrument based on their geographical location, and that's definitely worthy of some meaningful discussion.

I'm in the camp of the friend being flat-out wrong, due to uninformed bias. And that's not just because I own and enjoy an Eastman. I just don't think it's possible to make broad generalizations like that about what an instrument is "worth" or its quality based on where it was made. People anywhere are capable of producing a fine instrument as long as the workers/luthiers are trained and (perhaps more importantly) there's a market for the product. Remember, Japanese guitars also used to be thought of as cheap junk, and opinion has gradually caught up to reality as quality went up; that is, except for people who still can't get over the non-American bias and wouldn't play a Yairi or L-series Yamaha, as was discussed a week or so ago in a Yamaha thread. I also hear lots of good things about Faith guitars, despite Indonesia's reputation for making some of the cheapest Fender and Squier models. Guitar making is a skill, it's not something that's reliant on geography.

THIS! Exactly. We all have opinions about things. Some are more informed than others and some have more preconceived biases than others.

[rwmct]

Originally Posted by rokdog49

Lastly a handful of negatives based on guitars made ten years ago or more.
Negative remarks about bad experiences can be made about any brand including custom builds by independent luthiers.
I won't do that... serves no purpose and doesn't reflect well on me. YMMV.

To me, this is very different than people making uninformed comments about a brand. Here we are talking about people discussing their actual experience with the brand. That, IMO, is the kind of information that some will find important. Even if it is a few years old, it is good to know what problems there were with different brands at different times. Many people buy used instruments.

[Pura Vida]

Originally Posted by Zeo828

HI

I recently purchased an Eastman E10000ss/V Which is there take on a Gibson L-00, with the tiger stripe pickguard etc.

It has Antique Varnish, Solid Adirondack Spruce Top, Solid Mahogany Back/Sides, Rosewood Fingerboard, Ebony Bridge/Bridge Pins, Bone Nut/Saddle, Antique Nickel Tuners.

I like the thing.

But a friend of mine said that he would never pay $1000 for a guitar made in China.

But in my opinion I see it as a guitar that is well made, all solid wood etc....
You are paying for a high quality guitar that happens to be made in China. Not a cheap stratocaster made in China, made to be affordable and cheap.

That's my take on it. It's the quality, not where it is made.

Eastman's build quality has become consistently very good, and their reputation has gained more acceptance in the online communities (and elsewhere), as more people get to play them. Your last sentence hits the nail on the head for me.

[Tony Burns]

1000 for that guitar is a great deal , Eastmans are a good value . If it was american made it would be like 2500 - 3000 -
typically Im a buy american , but Eastman is one of the top chinese guitar brands -
Im really surprised that when your friend heard it he didnt want one.



.

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by Zeo828

But a friend of mine said that he would never pay $1000 for a guitar made in China.

There's may be a couple of things at play here...

First is China's reputation for making cheap goods quickly. China embraced this reputation when they started ramping up their factories. The benefits to the consumer was the price, but it came at the cost of quality and consistency. Now China would like to modify that reputation and not have their country associated with shoddy merchandise but it's not going to be an easy reputation to shed.

Second, China is now one of the US's direct competitors. Many folks are making an effort to minimize the number of purchases they make that benefit China.

[Alter]

Never played an Eastman acoustic but i 've played some hollowbodies and semi hollows of their line. Good thing is you can get them used for really good prices. Wasn't really impressed, i would never pay the money they are asking for new ones. But, they ARE getting better each year.

[Steadfastly]

Originally Posted by roylor4

Many people will seek to devalue other people and their possessions to feel elevated themselves. I think that is sad.

Correct. It's a form of bragging.

[rokdog49]

Originally Posted by rwmct

To me, this is very different than people making uninformed comments about a brand. Here we are talking about people discussing their actual experience with the brand. That, IMO, is the kind of information that some will find important. Even if it is a few years old, it is good to know what problems there were with different brands at different times. Many people buy used instruments.

I agree but to say it with obvious disdain and dismiss any company altogether based on something that happened in the past is
not a "discussion". I fail to see how that is helpful.
At the very least, a person could say "this was my experience a number of years ago, perhaps things have changed." That would seem to be a better way of putting it; especially in light of the overwhelming positive opinions about Eastman guitars on this very forum currently.
It's a known fact that Eastman has made great strides toward a more consistent quality build in recent years and have elevated their game considerably. These are old gripes and from the same old sources. Why keep bringing them up?
As I said in my previous post, same old same old.

[ALBD]

Originally Posted by jim1960

There's may be a couple of things at play here...

First is China's reputation for making cheap goods quickly. China embraced this reputation when they started ramping up their factories. The benefits to the consumer was the price, but it came at the cost of quality and consistency. Now China would like to modify that reputation and not have their country associated with shoddy merchandise but it's not going to be an easy reputation to shed.

Second, China is now one of the US's direct competitors. Many folks are making an effort to minimize the number of purchases they make that benefit China.

This is why the friends uninformed opinion about a specific Chinese product doesn’t offend me. Clearly he did not know what an Eastman is or how well regarded they are by those who frequent places like this. Chinese products have a bad rep in general. He simply has no experience to rationalize buying a Chinese guitar for over a grand—like a lot of good, hard working, honest, tolerant Americans.

So I’m missing the point of the Brouhaha here.

Just my redneck opinion.

[rwmct]

Originally Posted by rokdog49

I agree but to say it with obvious disdain and dismiss any company altogether based on something that happened in the past is
not a "discussion". I fail to see how that is helpful.
At the very least, a person could say "this was my experience a number of years ago, perhaps things have changed." That would seem to be a better way of putting it; especially in light of the overwhelming positive opinions about Eastman guitars on this very forum currently.

I don't entirely disagree. OTH, if a guitar and the experience trying to get it right leaves someone with strong feelings against a company, I don't fault them for saying so. It is for the rest of us to decide for ourselves how much to credit it.

[rokdog49]

Originally Posted by rwmct

I don't entirely disagree. OTH, if a guitar and the experience trying to get it right leaves someone with strong feelings against a company, I don't fault them for saying so. It is for the rest of us to decide for ourselves how much to credit it.

Yes it is.
I suppose a clear-thinking person will recognize an obvious anti-something bias for what it is, especially in light of overwhelmingly positive comments.

[crikey]

Originally Posted by Zeo828

HI

I recently purchased an Eastman E10000ss/V Which is there take on a Gibson L-00, with the tiger stripe pickguard etc.

It has Antique Varnish, Solid Adirondack Spruce Top, Solid Mahogany Back/Sides, Rosewood Fingerboard, Ebony Bridge/Bridge Pins, Bone Nut/Saddle, Antique Nickel Tuners.

I like the thing.

But a friend of mine said that he would never pay $1000 for a guitar made in China.

But in my opinion I see it as a guitar that is well made, all solid wood etc....
You are paying for a high quality guitar that happens to be made in China. Not a cheap stratocaster made in China, made to be affordable and cheap.

That's my take on it. It's the quality, not where it is made.

I don't see a problem with his opinion, or yours. I don't see anyone winning this "debate." Congrats on scoring a guitar you obviously love!