feel bad about going into my local guitar store

[RockyRacc00n]

I go into my local Sam Ash when ever I am in the area. Good selection, good people.

I bought my first "nice" guitar there about a year ago. Back then, I didn't know about this forum and a bit naive about prices so I paid the full sticker price. It was a DRS2. I didn't even think to negotiate.

After getting it and getting on this forum, I got clued into the deeper discounts, and since then, bought 2 more (D18 and D21 on the way) through the forum sponsors at decent prices. The thing that I feel bad about is that I tried out those 2 guitars at Sam Ash but I didn't/couldn't give them the business because they just couldn't compete on the prices.

I'm not sure when I will buy an "expensive" guitar again... probably will trade within what I have now if I wanted other guitars, but who knows. But if I do, I don't see myself ever buying from them. So now every time I go into Sam Ash, I want to try the nice guitars they have, but I feel bad knowing that I will never probably buy a guitar from them.

Maybe I can feel OK about the full price DRS I bought from them a year ago, but the guy that sold me that isn't there anymore, so the guys that are there now probably got me labeled as the dude that always comes in but never bought a guitar. So now, every once in a while, before I walk out, I try to buy some picks or whatever as a price of admissions.



EDIT: Thank you all for sharing your thoughts and experiences. I wanted to come around and make this edit because I didn't say this specifically the first time and a few of you are asking... "did you ask them to match the price?"

Originally Posted by Goat Whiskey Picks

.... but if you're trying out guitars at Sam Ash you might as well give them a chance to earn your business. Just tell them that you'll pay $XX for the guitar and if they can't sell it for that you'll purchase elsewhere...

I asked them what their best price was.... he told me $50 off the sticker on the D21. He was so far off but I tried anyway and told him what I was quoted from the sponsor. He couldn't come close. And probably thought was BS'ing him.

Originally Posted by HodgdonExtreme

Of course the brick and mortar can't compete with the bottom line price point of the onliners!

Aren't the sponsors also brick and mortar? Some smaller overhead than others, and yes, not as big of an overhead as say Sam Ash or GC, but still with a store front. And the sponsors I've dealt with, when you ask them the best price, they seem to get right at it.... Not start a dance at like $50 off the sticker price. Also, I'm not talking about onliners like MusiciansFriend or Sweetwater. From my experiences with them, they weren't that much better on prices either. Maybe I didn't catch them at the right promotion or something.

Originally Posted by HodgdonExtreme

...but consider what being a consumer will be like once they're all gone... I suspect you'll miss the ability to inspect a product in person prior to laying down your money.

Yes, which is why I want to try to buy from them. But it looks like it will have to be on smaller ticket items. And hopefully they make enough sales on the cheaper guitars to stay in business.

[Goat Mick]

I'm 100% behind you on supporting forum sponsors (especially since I are one) but if you're trying out guitars at Sam Ash you might as well give them a chance to earn your business. Just tell them that you'll pay $XX for the guitar and if they can't sell it for that you'll purchase elsewhere. And then buy a pick or pack of strings.

[WindChaser]

You are not alone. I feel the same way. I tried to give them my business, but their prices were not competitive whatsoever; and I have no desire to donate to them. I once tried to trade in my Martin 000-18ge, and they offered me something so low I considered it insane. When I told them it was too low, the manager disfigured his face with a huge frown and sarcastically asked me what I was expecting. Ever since then, I knew it was pointless in doing business with them. However, I do still go in to try out their guitars. The way I see it, Taylor, Martin, etc are able to showcase their guitars to consumers through big retailers like Sam Ash and Guitar Center. We end up buying them, but just not from those big retailers simply because they cannot compete on price.

Also, I hear from smaller guitar shops that they cannot sell their Martins at 40% list because they are a smaller sized business. They say only larger guitar business with more sales traffic can make money off selling it at 40% off list. Then my question is, why can't GC and Sam Ash do this when much smaller businesses than them are doing it?

[Texmex03]

I feel the same way. But when I bought my Yamaha I called the local dealers and they either didn't carry Yamaha or didn't have an FG830 in stock and one said he wouldn't order till after NAMM which would be a few weeks.

Yeah...NO. So I bought at Guitar Center which is still quasi-local.

The Dread Jr, I tried one at a local store but he wouldn't discount, Guitar Center gave 20% off without me asking so I bought it.

I went today to the local store and had him do a setup on the Yamaha and bought some strings to support the local man and absolve my guilt. He suggested a little neck adjustment and lowering saddle but when I asked how to examine when reset is needed I got the "you just know with experience" kinda thing. Wasn't too impressed so I wont feel as guilty next time with that particular shop.

In my mind if I am paying inflated prices of local I would appreciate some knowledge sharing as to how you come to that decision if I am spending the money there.

[HodgdonExtreme]

I think the term given to what we're discussing here is called "window shopping"..

Where you look/touch/hear/feel a product offering, in person, at a retail establishment, then go buy it online from a retailer that has far less overhead than the so-called "brick and mortar" retail establishment.

Of course the brick and mortar can't compete with the bottom line price point of the onliners!

However, the higher price of the brick and mortar does buy you something of value - the ability to touch/hear/feel before you buy. It may also provide you with a personalized buying experience, and perhaps after-sale support the onliners can't match. These things are generally considered valuable.

It is no secret that brick and mortars are having a tough time competing in the marketplace, but consider what being a consumer will be like once they're all gone... I suspect you'll miss the ability to inspect a product in person prior to laying down your money.

I'm not reprimanding anybody for window shopping. I do it too. Just musing.

[WindChaser]

In my experience, the big online retailers like Musicians Friend and Sweetwater often do not give competitive prices when compared to businesses like our AGF sponsors. I would say the MF and Sweetwater give prices more similar to GC and Sam Ash.

[weisser]

Originally Posted by WindChaser

You are not alone. I feel the same way. I tried to give them my business, but their prices were not competitive whatsoever; and I have no desire to donate to them. I once tried to trade in my Martin 000-18ge, and they offered me something so low I considered it insane. When I told them it was too low, the manager disfigured his face with a huge frown and sarcastically asked me what I was expecting. Ever since then, I knew it was pointless in doing business with them. However, I do still go in to try out their guitars. The way I see it, Taylor, Martin, etc are able to showcase their guitars to consumers through big retailers like Sam Ash and Guitar Center. We end up buying them, but just not from those big retailers simply because they cannot compete on price.

Also, I hear from smaller guitar shops that they cannot sell their Martins at 40% list because they are a smaller sized business. They say only larger guitar business with more sales traffic can make money off selling it at 40% off list. Then my question is, why can't GC and Sam Ash do this when much smaller businesses than them are doing it?

If you consider Martin's pricing and their policy with dealers....it's only the smaller dealers that really specialize in online sales that can make a profit by discounting deeply (40%). Keep operating expenses at a minimum by maintaining a small showroom (or no showroom at all!), minimal staff and really holding down the overhead...then being able to sell with that kind of limited profit margin can work out provided you do enough volume.

[Shades of Blue]

Here is the thing. If you try a guitar and like it, but know you can get a better price online, at least try to make an offer. Give them the chance to refuse. Then you can leave with a clear conscience.

[RockyRacc00n]

Originally Posted by Goat Whiskey Picks

.... but if you're trying out guitars at Sam Ash you might as well give them a chance to earn your business. Just tell them that you'll pay $XX for the guitar and if they can't sell it for that you'll purchase elsewhere...

I asked them what their best price was.... he told me $50 off the sticker on the D21. He was so far off but I tried anyway and told him what I was quoted from the sponsor. He couldn't come close. And probably thought was BS'ing him.

Originally Posted by HodgdonExtreme

Of course the brick and mortar can't compete with the bottom line price point of the onliners!

Aren't the sponsors also brick and mortar? Some smaller overhead than others, and yes, not as big of an overhead as say Sam Ash or GC, but still with a store front. And the sponsors I've dealt with, when you ask them the best price, they seem to get right at it.... Not start a dance at like $50 off the sticker price. Also, I'm not talking about onliners like MusiciansFriend or Sweetwater. From my experiences with them, they weren't that much better on prices either. Maybe I didn't catch them at the right promotion or something.

Originally Posted by HodgdonExtreme

...but consider what being a consumer will be like once they're all gone... I suspect you'll miss the ability to inspect a product in person prior to laying down your money.

Yes, which is why I want to try to buy from them. But it looks like it will have to be on smaller ticket items. And hopefully they make enough sales on the cheaper guitars to stay in business.

[mjudd]

This may have been covered; but you might mention to the salespeople at the store that you can buy the same guitar from <InsertNameOfOnlineStore> for <InsertPrice> and see if they can come close to matching that price. Most places are aware that they are competing with internet prices, and I'd be willing to bet they can negotiate a bit on prices. If they can get within reasonable amount, then buy from the online outlet.

Like you, I prefer to buy local, but not if it costs too much. If I could by a guitar online for $2000 but had to pay $2100 at the local brick and mortar store, I'm okay with that. But if I can buy a guitar for $2000 online but the local store won't budge from a $2800 asking price, that's too much difference. Buying locally isn't work that much difference in price.

You'll have to find out how much difference is "worth it" for you.

[Tico]

Originally Posted by WindChaser

Also, I hear from smaller guitar shops that they cannot sell their Martins at 40% list because they are a smaller sized business. They say only larger guitar business with more sales traffic can make money off selling it at 40% off list. Then my question is, why can't GC and Sam Ash do this when much smaller businesses than them are doing it?

I suspect part (or all) of the reason is just negotiating mumbojumbo.

A salesperson has to respond to your offer with something anything that has a hint of plausibility instead of replying with, "No" because their job is to get each buyer to pay as much as possible.

Negotiating is a game.
Salesfolks are pros who do it all day.
Civilians usually aren't because they rarely have to do it.

Read up on how to play the negotiating game.

[Mr Bojangles]

If I can buy a brand-X guitar online for $2,000, I'm sure a local store can get the same guitar cheaper than I can. They should at least be able to come close to my price to make the sale. I realize that they have big overhead and have to turn a profit. But if they lose my sale to an online vendor, they gain nothing. A small profit would be better than no profit, right?

On another note, I have purchased new guitars from brick and mortar stores, only to go back weeks later wanting to trade it in for a different model. The trade-in offer was always insulting. When I mentioned that I just bought it there, I was told that it didn't matter. Well, it seems like it should, if they want a customer base. The last time they told me to sell it on eBay or Craigslist and then come back in and buy from them. I said that it was a good idea, but that I wouldn't be buying from them. The sales manager told me that I was "learning a lesson" about buying guitars. I responded that indeed I was, and the lesson was to never buy even a set of strings or a pick from them.

[Goat Mick]

Originally Posted by RockyRacc00n

I asked them what their best price was.... he told me $50 off the sticker on the D21. He was so far off but I tried anyway and told him what I was quoted from the sponsor. He couldn't come close. And probably thought was BS'ing him.




Aren't the sponsors also brick and mortar? Some smaller overhead than others, and yes, not as big of an overhead as say Sam Ash or GC, but still with a store front. And the sponsors I've dealt with, when you ask them the best price, they seem to get right at it.... Not start a dance at like $50 off the sticker price. Also, I'm not talking about onliners like MusiciansFriend or Sweetwater. From my experiences with them, they weren't that much better on prices either. Maybe I didn't catch them at the right promotion or something.



Yes, which is why I want to try to buy from them. But it looks like it will have to be on smaller ticket items. And hopefully they make enough sales on the cheaper guitars to stay in business.

I get it, really. I have a local store that I'm very loyal to, but I also have some online resources that discount heavily. I just tell my local guy what I can buy it for online and he either gets close enough to do business (I will pay slightly more to support my local business community) or tells me that I need to just go ahead and order it because he can't get close. But giving him the opportunity and having a good enough relationship with them that they know I'm not blowing smoke up their butt has paid off for me numerous times.

[guitarsnpucks]

My local music store has some great people who own and run it. I really enjoy going in there and although I know I don’t always get the BEST price, I love going in for conversations about guitars and equipment. I usually make one small purchase each time I go in. Usually some Humidipaks or something. I do, however, go somewhere else for instruments as they don’t have any acoustic guitars (I think/hope they’re working on that).

-Ty

[808K]

If you don’t support your local guitar stores, your local guitar stores won’t be there for you to audition their guitars. And that day is likely coming.

Not making a judgment, just stating my concern.