Vintage problem, no bridgeplate

NeptuneBlue · #1 07-01-2018, 01:17 PM

So I picked up an old Hagstrom recently in a trade, in need of a little work. It's called an H-11, and was built for steel strings but with classical bracing, which probably explains the repaired crack in the soundboard it has running through the bridge area. When I actually get it strung up, I'm going to be using Silk and Steel to mitigate any further damage.

The model specs suggest it to be a 1967, but the serial number dates it to October 1966 for sure - so, I think it is a prototype for the change in specs they would introduce in 1967.

So, while checking the crack's stability and whether or not the bridge needs re-gluing, I happened across another interesting quirk - there's no bridge-plate. There isn't even a bridge padding, as I am aware exists on many classical guitars. Instead, the pin holes go through the sound board with no other support on the inside, and one of the pin holes actually goes through one of the guitar's braces, as you can see in the picture

So, I know some people use beads on the ball end of the strings to prevent bridge plates from getting even more chewed up than they are on older guitars. I was thinking of a slightly different approach - instead of using beads, maybe trying buttons (I was thinking brass) in order to spread out the load from the string across a larger area to mitigate some of the stress, while also serving the same function in stopping the sound board (instead of the bridge plate) from being further chewed up.

I might be able to do a bridge plate installation - I've never done one before, but I've been rather meticulous with prior repair work... here's hoping I'm not suffering from the Dunning-Kruger effect

But the way the pinholes are already chewed, and especially that one through the brace, scares me, and I'm not certain as what might be done, so I came up with my button idea. Thoughts?

It has some other issues too, concerning the crack and the bridge, but I think I have a decent solution to that. This project has taught me a lot, for sure!

srick · #2 07-01-2018, 02:28 PM

Your easiest solution is a Mitchel ‘platemate’ available through Stewmac. Here’s one of several threads all about it:https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...ight=Platemate (see page 2 for the platemate)

Best,

Rick

PS -welcome to the forum!

NeptuneBlue · #3 07-03-2018, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by srick

Your easiest solution is a Mitchel ‘platemate’ available through Stewmac. Here’s one of several threads all about it:https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...ight=Platemate (see page 2 for the platemate)

Best,

Rick

PS -welcome to the forum!

Thanks!

Also, do you think this will work even with the odd bracing in the way?

srick · #4 07-03-2018, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeptuneBlue

Thanks!

Also, do you think this will work even with the odd bracing in the way?

Good question. The platemate is held on with double stick tape, you could possibly cut a chunk of the tape out in that area, leaving space for the brace.

And you know the other possibility (remove a small chunk of brace to allow the Platemate to seat), but ignore that thought. Nope, I never said it. I know nothing...nothink!

printer2 · #5 07-03-2018, 08:54 PM

I would cut the brace and take a scraper removing the brace where the bridge plate would go. Then just install one inside of the other two braces.

phavriluk · #6 07-03-2018, 10:17 PM

My suggestion is to get the instrument to an in-person luthier and ask what's best to be done. A 'platemate' or something like one will offer none of the structural help that a wood bridge plate brings to the guitar top. My inclination, sight unseen, is to do what needs to be done to install a bridge plate, but that's my own thought process in evidence.

srick · #7 07-04-2018, 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phavriluk

My suggestion is to get the instrument to an in-person luthier and ask what's best to be done. A 'platemate' or something like one will offer none of the structural help that a wood bridge plate brings to the guitar top. My inclination, sight unseen, is to do what needs to be done to install a bridge plate, but that's my own thought process in evidence.

I agree. The platemate is merely a quick fix.

mirwa · #8 07-04-2018, 06:04 AM

Bridge plate is primarily to prevent string ball damage to the underside of the soundboard, nothing more nothing less.

The platemate from stewmac IMO will be more than sufficient to do the job.

If your feeling skilled and adventurous go fo it, make a bridge plate

Steve

Rodger Knox · #9 07-04-2018, 09:46 AM

I'm not sure whether I'd pop off that brace and notch it for the bridgeplate, or make two bridgeplates. There's a slight structural difference between the two methods, with notching the brace having a higher crossgrain stiffness. That may be good, maybe not. It would be a more difficult repair, but I don't do repairs like some of the pros on here.

Braindead · #10 07-04-2018, 10:36 AM

That brace looks awfully thin. Is it practical to notch the bridge plate so it can straddle the brace? Maybe even make the bridge plate a little thicker to lend extra support to the top? Would having a bridge plate straddle three braces lend any additional support, especially if the bridge plate is made of a life time material and permanently mounted? I have an acoustic guitar now that has really weak fan bracing and there seems to be no GOOD fix for the belly, bowl and cracks.

Please forgive my ignorance re. guitar construction but I have recently become fascinated at how they are engineered!

John Arnold · #11 07-05-2018, 09:10 AM

The easiest and quickest thing to do is install small washers on the strings and thread them through from inside. That eliminates the need for bridge pins. Aluminum washers for 1/8" pop rivets work perfectly.
A permanent fix (as others suggested) is to trim down the center fan brace and glue in a hardwood bridgeplate.

printer2 · #12 07-05-2018, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Braindead

I have an acoustic guitar now that has really weak fan bracing and there seems to be no GOOD fix for the belly, bowl and cracks.

I would glue a brace right next, parallel to the originals. May change the sound but must be better than the current situation.

Truckjohn · #13 07-06-2018, 06:55 PM

Remember that almost all traditional "northern" European guitars used pin bridges with gut strings. This includes our hero Christian F. Martin's guitars... Many of these were made as strummers with much narrower fretboards than we are used to seeing on proper "Classical" guitars today...

So if it's braced like a classical - it's designed for Nylon strings - not steel strings. The lack of a bridge plate is also a very strong indication of the same. Ignore the pin bridge. String it with nylon - just tie big knots on the string ends and slip on some string balls off an old steel string set.

Braindead · #14 07-07-2018, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by printer2

I would glue a brace right next, parallel to the originals. May change the sound but must be better than the current situation.

Thanks!!! What would happen if you glued a brace on top of the existing thin weak brace?
That is, if you could match the profile of the top of the existing brace? Of course, everything is dependent on first flattening the sound board.

printer2 · #15 07-07-2018, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Braindead

Thanks!!! What would happen if you glued a brace on top of the existing thin weak brace?
That is, if you could match the profile of the top of the existing brace? Of course, everything is dependent on first flattening the sound board.

Ideally it would be better (lighter) to add material to the braces. As long as they are reasonably flat I can see gluing a strip on top of the old ones. All you have to keep in mind is, 'It's my guitar and I'll do what I want to it.'