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  #1  
Old 07-03-2018, 05:15 PM
mz-s mz-s is offline
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Default DIY Setup Tools - personal experience

I have an Epiphone Masterbilt DR-400MCE that I bought new a few months ago. I decided it was time to do a good setup on it and get it playing like I expect it to.

I got a set of torch cleaning files from Home Depot to file down the nut.

They worked really well. The torches aren't mean to file bone, they are used to clean crud off acetylene torch tips, so they wear out quickly. I've already used them once and the sizes needed for nuts are already pretty much shot. But, for $4, it was worth it. If I do this much more I'll either buy a 10-thou saw or a set of nut files.

I don't have a micrometer or feeler gauges or other way to measure nut slot depth, I just used the old middle of third fret and tap the string against the first fret trick. There was a good bit of loosen string, file some more, tighten string, test, but I got the action good now. I can play a barre F without issue. That was a struggle before this work.

For the saddle, my action going in was 110 thou on the low E at the 12th - not unplayable, but I sanded 1mm off the bottom of the saddle to dial it in. My action at the twelfth is now 80 thousandths. I am using a chinese knockoff action gauge I paid $5 for on eBay.

I used good 3M sandpaper, since it doesn't build up with bone dust as readily as the cheaper stuff and lasts for a long time.

Neck relief is stable, I tightened the truss rod when I bought the guitar, and it hasn't needed any adjustment since - almost straight, just a touch of relief.

I can beat on the guitar and not get any buzzing - Epiphone does a good job with leveling their fretboards and frets, even on these $400 all-solid models.

Anyway, just letting folks know that it's not hard - if I can do it, you can do it. I understand the trepidation of doing your own setup for the first time on a $2500 guitar but for a guitar like this, $20 in equipment and 30 minutes is really all in th world it takes. If you change your car's oil, you can setup your own guitar.
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Old 07-04-2018, 06:13 AM
mirwa mirwa is offline
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I agree and I dare to dis-agree.

My example, I have an electroplating line in my shop, I can plate copper and nickel and I do, my good mate is a qualified electroplater and he spent 3 years on an apprenticeship to learn to plate.

Now I can plate no probs, why should I pay someone to do it for me, becuase when everything goes perfect it’s dead simple to do, but the moment one thing goes wrong, you are instantly out of your league and have no idea where to go.

Back to guitars, if everything goes well, anyone can do it, the momment an issue raises its head, like warped neck, high fret, fall away, overset neck, underset neck, etc, you are in the same situation I am in with plating, als if you dare to do a friends Guitar, be super super confident.

Everyone should give it a go if they feel confident, but many things also go wrong and can cost you more to get fixed in the long run, I say this from having had to fix many guitars from things having gone wrong, a classic example is one customer helped his mate out doing a Setup, I ended up pulling the fretboard off to replace the broken truss rod.

Steve
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Old 07-04-2018, 07:20 AM
mz-s mz-s is offline
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Not sure how an overset neck could result from a setup, maybe I'm just ignorant. But your point about having things turn out different than you expected is well taken. I wouldn't do my own setup on a nice guitar, but for a $400 guitar I wanted to give it a shot. Believe me this guitar looks cheap...if I had my druthers I would have returned it when I could. Oh well.
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Old 07-04-2018, 08:03 AM
redir redir is offline
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It depends. Some people have innate mechanical instincts and others don't. Then still some just want to know that their guitar is in the hands of someone very experienced. Interestingly I got a guitar in my shop the other day for a refret from a guy who has actually already built a few guitars. For this particular guitar he just wants it done 100% right even though he obviously has the skills to fret.
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Old 07-04-2018, 09:34 AM
MC5C MC5C is offline
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The skill in a set-up is dealing with issues. If you are perfecting a setup on a guitar with no issues then easy peasy, and that's what the OP experienced. Just doing the nut properly on a guitar for the first time is a wonderful thing. Doing a setup on a guitar that needs a repair is always going to be a different thing, and I separate the two - dealing with a poorly set neck gets done first, and then, when all the issues are dealt with, I do setup on a guitar with no issues...

Doing a refret is always different and for me far more difficult than fretting a new guitar, the biggest issue is always getting the old frets out without screwing something up. I had to pull a couple of frets off a guitar I just finished, chipped the fretboard, and now I have a new guitar with a chipped fretboard. Only I will ever notice, probably, but if you have the repair skills that is a step above, a big step above, making a few guitars as a hobby.

I add a fret crowning file, fret flattening file, fret polishing setup to my setup tools, since a fret dress is often indicated, for better or worse. I also have the nut files et al...
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Old 07-04-2018, 09:36 AM
Rodger Knox Rodger Knox is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mz-s View Post
If you change your car's oil, you can setup your own guitar.
That's probably true, in a general way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mirwa View Post
I agree and I dare to dis-agree.


Back to guitars, if everything goes well, anyone can do it, the momment an issue raises its head, like warped neck, high fret, fall away, overset neck, underset neck, etc, you are in the same situation I am in with plating, als if you dare to do a friends Guitar, be super super confident.

Everyone should give it a go if they feel confident, but many things also go wrong and can cost you more to get fixed in the long run, I say this from having had to fix many guitars from things having gone wrong, a classic example is one customer helped his mate out doing a Setup, I ended up pulling the fretboard off to replace the broken truss rod.

Steve
It's not so much things going wrong as things being wrong when you start the setup. You need to be able to evaluate if there is something wrong that will interfere with a good setup, and not proceed unless you are qualified to do the work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mz-s View Post
Not sure how an overset neck could result from a setup, maybe I'm just ignorant. But your point about having things turn out different than you expected is well taken. I wouldn't do my own setup on a nice guitar, but for a $400 guitar I wanted to give it a shot. Believe me this guitar looks cheap...if I had my druthers I would have returned it when I could. Oh well.
I think what Steve is saying is that a setup won't correct an overset neck, you need to fix the neck angle before you can do a setup.
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Old 07-04-2018, 09:36 AM
BT55 BT55 is offline
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If you do some research and purchase the right tools (they're all available inexpensively on eBay) there is no reason why you can't perform a good setup. Granted if there is something wrong with the guitar that is fret or bridge related that may require a Luthier. In most cases getting the nut, bridge saddle and truss rod setup is easy enough to get right.
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  #8  
Old 07-04-2018, 09:57 AM
Rodger Knox Rodger Knox is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BT55 View Post
If you do some research and purchase the right tools (they're all available inexpensively on eBay) there is no reason why you can't perform a good setup. Granted if there is something wrong with the guitar that is fret or bridge related that may require a Luthier. In most cases getting the nut, bridge saddle and truss rod setup is easy enough to get right.
And every guitar player should be able to do those adjustments, particularly if the nut slots have been set in a previous setup. Usually the relief is OK, so sanding or shimming the saddle is the only adjustment a player should make on his own, it's easily reversible. That's not the case with a broken truss rod, and sometimes even good, experienced, tech will break a trussrod, there's a thread on here now with that topic. So if you think there needs to be less relief, be careful with the trussrod adjustment. It's shouldn't be tweaked to adjust action, that compromises playability somewhere on the fingerboard. But if you can live with that, and most people can, it's not a big deal. Tweaking the trussrod is not optimum, but it's frequently good enough.
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Last edited by Rodger Knox; 07-04-2018 at 10:03 AM.
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  #9  
Old 07-04-2018, 01:25 PM
arie arie is offline
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fwiw, i think there is some terminology misfire here regarding the neck. when we talk of "neck-set" we are referring to the angular positioning of the shaft of the neck in relation to the bridge and saddle enabling a decent range of action to be achieved.

a neck is either "under-set", "over-set" or "on". none of these conditions can be dealt with correctly during a simple "set-up" (unless the neck is adjustable) nor with an adjustment of the truss rod -although many, many try.
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Old 07-04-2018, 01:47 PM
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Mr. Jelly Mr. Jelly is offline
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As has been discussed time and again on this forum new guitars ($1,700 and up) have high action. I would expect a new guitar to have an easily adjustable truss rod. Fairly good frets. A nut that is high and possibly a bridge that is high. So measure the relief and adjust if needed. Measure the action and adjust if needed. Measure the nut and adjust if needed. Troubled guitars are a different story.
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  #11  
Old 07-04-2018, 05:26 PM
mirwa mirwa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arie View Post
a neck is either "under-set", "over-set" or "on". none of these conditions can be dealt with correctly during a simple "set-up" (unless the neck is adjustable) nor with an adjustment of the truss rod -although many, many try.
Correct, but, if one does not know what one is looking at then they can do damage during the Setup, underset and overset necks are just some small examples of things we encounter when we do setups, knowing these issues allows us to then stop our setup and conduct a specific repair.

My point was simple, yes anyone can possibly set a guitar up, provided it’s a good Guitar to start with with no underlying issues

Steve
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