Live audio recording at gigs

flagstaffcharli · #1 10-17-2010, 09:37 AM

I know there are probably 500 threads on "Which recorder should I buy?" In my home studio I have an older Yamaha DAW that workds fine. But it is a big machine.

I have one of these Kodak Zi8 video cameras and last night I tried recording some tunes at a gig. It was a nice room with a listening audience. I brought the video home and I'm pretty disappointed. The audio quality is marred by a lot of distortion and rumbling. It's a bummer because the performances are there.

I play through a Fishman Loudbox and I wonder if there isn't an inexpensive recorder that I can just attach to the output of the Loudbox? I often perform live just by plugging a single condenser mic into the Loudbox and positioning it so that it picks up both by voice and guitar. If I could get a clean capture of that I'd probably have what I need.

I've been spending some money on luthier tools and also doing some trading around of guitars, so I'm not really very enthusiastic about shopping. But I have a new CD coming soon, and I want to get a new press kit together and maybe a couple of YouTubes of actual performances rather that the "made-at-home" type videos.

Thanks!

Fran Guidry · #2 10-17-2010, 10:16 AM

I record from a live mixer to a Zoom H2 often. I place an attenuator between the tape out of the mixer and the line in of the H2. The attenuator is needed because the Zoom H2 line in is over-sensitive and has no analog control.

Your idea of connecting a recorder to your amp should work fine, but you may want to mix the room sound with the direct sound in post.

Fran

RustyAxe · #3 10-17-2010, 10:52 AM

Usually you get poor audio if your mic is in the same location as your camera. Try close-mic'ing the amp/PA.

flagstaffcharli · #4 10-17-2010, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fran Guidry

I record from a live mixer to a Zoom H2 often. I place an attenuator between the tape out of the mixer and the line in of the H2. The attenuator is needed because the Zoom H2 line in is over-sensitive and has no analog control.

Your idea of connecting a recorder to your amp should work fine, but you may want to mix the room sound with the direct sound in post.

Fran

Thanks Fran! I was hoping you'd chime in because I know you pay a lot of attention to this stuff.

I think I actually get quite a bit of room in the condenser. I can choose between a large condenser MXL and a really nice AKG. Most gigs I just use the MXL and it sound pretty good.

I'll check out the Zoom. I don;t think I want to mic the Fishman. I'd rather just mic me, and sending the signal through a mic, then an amp 7 speaker, then another mic... sounds like a messy signal chain.

DenverSteve · #5 10-17-2010, 09:36 PM

I have been looking for similar and finally bought the Zoom R16. There are numerous self-contained multi-track recorders that you can use from - Zoom, Tascam, Fostex, Boss and Korg. If you're like me, you want 4 simultaneous recording channels at one time.

For the live show you would probably want something like I ordered. The Zoom R16 allows 8 channels simultaneously recording. You can run the out line to your video camera (assuming you did like me and buy one with a mic. input). There aren't many entry-level cameras with one. I bought a Canon for under 400 that will allow me to do the same thing. You mix your inputs through the interface/multi-track recorder and output the mixed music directly to the camera. You should get the sound/video you want that way.

Fran Guidry · #6 10-18-2010, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PastorSteve

I have been looking for similar and finally bought the Zoom R16. There are numerous self-contained multi-track recorders that you can use from - Zoom, Tascam, Fostex, Boss and Korg. If you're like me, you want 4 simultaneous recording channels at one time.

For the live show you would probably want something like I ordered. The Zoom R16 allows 8 channels simultaneously recording. You can run the out line to your video camera (assuming you did like me and buy one with a mic. input). There aren't many entry-level cameras with one. I bought a Canon for under 400 that will allow me to do the same thing. You mix your inputs through the interface/multi-track recorder and output the mixed music directly to the camera. You should get the sound/video you want that way.

I used an R16 this past summer for my Aloha Friday in Downtown Pleasant Hill series. I used the R16 both as a mixer/effects unit (output to a Fishman Soloamp) and recorder, then synced the audio to video in post.

This would work equally well feeding the Zi8 instead of (or in addition to) the PA or acoustic amp.

Fran

dwaisman · #7 10-22-2010, 09:42 AM

I'd suggest also a Pre-amp for the camera. I use a juicedlink for all the videos reviews we do at Loudestreviews. Even when I do professional video work, I don't trust camera's poor and weak pre-amp. You see, it uses an electronic algorithm for it and it's plain just bad.
This pre-amp allows you to connect two XLR inputs. So you could either connect the mixer output and have great sound.
The Zi8 has a microphone input, I think. There's also an alternative by using a Hosa adapter. From XLR to mini plug, but I don't know if you can control audio's gain at the camera.

Regards

Ty Ford · #8 10-23-2010, 04:57 AM

"it uses an electronic algorithm for it:

Please explain.

Regards,

Ty Ford

tammuz7000 · #9 10-30-2010, 09:13 AM

I have used a Flip HD camera and the quality of audio is pretty good. It's not the same as recording from an audio interface in your basement but it not bad and I got no distortion. I was pretty surprised how good it was. If the kodak has a mic input which I think it might you could try a better mic into it. but if the music is loud it may distort.

I have also done live recordings in a club with an m-audio micro track with the mic attatched to it and got a lot of distortion. Then when I plugged it into the board it came out pretty good. This was of a loud band with electrics, etc

There are lots of options best to try a few different ones. If you are playing at loud levels then coming out of the board is the way that worked for me.

flagstaffcharli · #10 10-30-2010, 09:51 AM

I think I'm leaning towards using the Zi8 for video, but getting a recorder I can attach to the back of my Loudbox or to a mic. I know there's software where I can sync the audio and video. If I use the Loudbox for a gig I tend to use a single condenser mic for both guitar and vocal. I don't need more than two inputs on the recorder regardless of the situation, and a prime concern is simply getting a recorder that is quick and small. Ease of use is important, as well as quality. I don't need any bells or whistles.

mutantrock · #11 10-31-2010, 06:50 AM

I have used a video recorder and simultaneously recorded the audio onto my laptop direct off of my mixer . I set the computer to record at 44Khz because that is what the camera is permanently set at. I copy both the a/v files into Sony Vegas ( $40) and remove the camera audio or mix the two audio files.