Tracking And Mixing Acoustic Music In The Home/Project Studio

[drtedtan]

Hey guys. I’ve learned a lot from watching Kenny Gioia's training videos on Reaper, and have been trying to get Kenny and the folks over at Groove 3 to do a training video on tracking and mixing acoustic music in the home/project studio. Since we often face issues you wouldn’t find in full on pro studios (higher noise floor, poor sounding rooms, etc.) I think this could go over really well and help a lot of us out in producing our music. Since it wouldn’t be feasible for them to do the video if there isn’t much interest in it, I figured I would put up a poll to see what you guys think of the idea. So what say you: would you buy this video or an all access pass if they were to make it?

Also, what topics would you be interested in learning about? Some I’ve thought of are:


Tracking Topics:

- Do we baffle the performer off with gobos or moving blankets to eliminate extraneous noise and reverb (think project studio rooms, not Abbey Road/Blackbird/Oceanway where you actually want the room tone)?

- Do we use a good but not overly sensitive dynamic mic, perhaps a Sennheiser 441 or an SM7b?

- Do we use SDCs with good off axis rejection (perhaps Beyer MC930 or the hyper cardioid equivalent)?

- How do we mic an acoustic guitar (mic type and positions)?

- How do we mic a mandolin (mic type and positions)?

- How do we mic an upright bass (mic type and positions)?

- How do we mic hand percussion like cajon, bongos, tambourine, etc.(mic type and positions)?

- How do we mic a banjo (mic type and positions) (Actually, on second thought, no one likes banjos so you may want to leave that one out )?

Mixing Topics:

- How much processing can an acoustic instrument take before it sounds unnatural? (Since this will vary with genre, you might address more natural sounding genres like folk and bluegrass and then go into genres where the acoustic instruments are more processed like rock, pop and country, touching on how far you can go in each while still getting good results).

[MikeBmusic]

Miking an acoustic - there are so many ways to do it, and many ways to get excellent results.

Miking acoustic percussion instruments, though - I've never had real good luck. Have done plastic egg shakers, moracas, tambourine and Bodhran.
Maybe it's just how I play them!

[drtedtan]

The way you and everyone else plays them!

I think this could be really interesting, but we'll have to wait and see what everyone else thinks before I go pestering these guys about this any more than I already have.

[drtedtan]

Bump because I think this could benefit a lot of us if it becomes a reality.

For those unfamiliar with Groove 3, they offer training videos on numerous recording related pieces of software (DAWs like Reaper, pro Tools, etc.) as well as on recording, mixing and mastering. These videos are good, and inexpensive (you can get a pass for $15), but their current videos are all aimed at electric and/or electronic music. Kenny Gioia is one of their instructors who is not only a great engineer, but a great teacher and is familiar with the struggles of those of us who record in home and project studios. Since they don't offer anything on the subject, I've looked around elsewhere for a video specific to tracking and mixing acoustic soloists and ensembles, but I haven't been able to turn up anything to date. (I'm not affiliated with either, just a satisfied customer).

I've discussed this briefly with the guys at Groove 3 and they think its a good idea. But I don't want to bug Kenny unless there is enough interest to be worth his while.

So what do you guys think? Is anyone else interested? What topics would you want to see covered?

[Luke_]

I'm using cubase not sure how much daw's are similar but the micing and mixing would be interesting. How much $ how long is the video? For download?

[Bogie54]

-I've been using Reaper lately for acoustic guitar and found that the interface between computer and microphone is pretty important; best mic can be rendered mediocre with low cost interface. It's expensive (~$500), but I've found the Focusrite Forte has improved my recordings significantly.

[drtedtan]

Originally Posted by Luke_

I'm using cubase not sure how much daw's are similar but the micing and mixing would be interesting. How much $ how long is the video? For download?

What I'm talking about (and looking for) isn't specific to any DAW, it should work regardless of which DAW you use. And it should work even if you record to hard disk or tape.

And to be clear, this video doesn't actually exist yet - I am trying to convince the folks involved that there are enough of us interested in this kind of video that it's worthwhile to produce it (most people today assume that only electric and electronic music is of interest because that's what the kids are interested in today). So if we want to see something like this that would benefit us, we need to make our preferences known - after all, I have more money to spend on an instructional video like this today than I did when I was 20.

[rick-slo]

Would not be a bad idea, but there is tons of free advice out there already on the internet, on this forum and elsewhere. There is always going to be some disagreements between "experts" - hearing advice from various sources is a good idea.

[drtedtan]

I agree, rick-slo - it's always worth getting as much info as possible because you can always learn something new.

But I also want to point out that I've learned a lot more from watching some of these videos of the pros in action than I have from reading forum posts, if for no other reason than I can see the mic placement and hear the change in sound simultaneously. And to be frank, the pros are all doing something similar that seems to escape most of us amateurs. Don't get me wrong, they all have their own style and sound, but at the same time they sound closer to one another than they do to us amateurs.

And I want to know what they're doing to get that "pro" sound.

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by drtedtan

I agree, rick-slo - it's always worth getting as much info as possible because you can always learn something new.

But I also want to point out that I've learned a lot more from watching some of these videos of the pros in action than I have from reading forum posts, if for no other reason than I can see the mic placement and hear the change in sound simultaneously. And to be frank, the pros are all doing something similar that seems to escape most of us amateurs. Don't get me wrong, they all have their own style and sound, but at the same time they sound closer to one another than they do to us amateurs.

And I want to know what they're doing to get that "pro" sound.

The specifics of their methods always breaks down when applied to your instruments, your playing, your room acoustics, your (fill in the blank). I would say in regards to recording an acoustic guitar a number of pros "achieve" a sound I don't care for. Take what you can use, discard the rest.

[KevWind]

I think it has some merit albeit in helping to eliminate a lot of basic mistakes made by newbies if nothing else. Not so much do it this way, as don't do this.

While there are very few hard and fast rules, there certainly are some general truism's

It could probably show some basic room placement diagram suggestions and help eliminate one of the first basic mistakes often made by newbies of placing the mixing position right up against a wall, or off center symmetry. One rarely if ever see's a "pro" room set up like that, for example. Things like that could be useful.

[Luke_]

Just like some threads there are some "experts" that will challenge anything that has worked others against their experiences. Rather than discuss the possibilities they turn a learning experience into an argument. Some of us never have been around recording studios or home studios to know where to start.

I think it's a great idea with the intention to educate the newbies (like myself) so we can make more professional recordings. Hopefully the "experts" know there methods and don't buy the video to criticize. I've found a lot of free YouTube stuff but none of which is thorough enough (start to finish). Some theory would help me for example. Stereo recording.... Two mics two tracks, or two mics one track? Pros/cons of each as I know they will both work similar. Panning is a big topic that gets argued a lot.

Cost and coverage will play a roll into my purchase. Nothing like a 25 min video with 10 minutes of repeating before we get to work. That being said I would be interested in an educational instructional video

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by Luke_

Just like some threads there are some "experts" that will challenge anything that has worked others against their experiences. Rather than discuss the possibilities they turn a learning experience into an argument. Some of us never have been around recording studios or home studios to know where to start.

I think it's a great idea with the intention to educate the newbies (like myself) so we can make more professional recordings. Hopefully the "experts" know there methods and don't buy the video to criticize. I've found a lot of free YouTube stuff but none of which is thorough enough (start to finish). Some theory would help me for example. Stereo recording.... Two mics two tracks, or two mics one track? Pros/cons of each as I know they will both work similar. Panning is a big topic that gets argued a lot.

Cost and coverage will play a roll into my purchase. Nothing like a 25 min video with 10 minutes of repeating before we get to work. That being said I would be interested in an educational instructional video

Thoroughly go through the threads on this recording sub-forum. Since the input is from people who are specifically familiar with recording a guitar a lot of it is very informative. Also a google search of what is on the internet will bring up a ton. It's all out there and you will get variety as it is explained from different angles

[drtedtan]

Originally Posted by KevWind

I think it has some merit albeit in helping to eliminate a lot of basic mistakes made by newbies if nothing else. Not so much do it this way, as don't do this.

While there are very few hard and fast rules, there certainly are some general truism's

It could probably show some basic room placement diagram suggestions and help eliminate one of the first basic mistakes often made by newbies of placing the mixing position right up against a wall, or off center symmetry. One rarely if ever see's a "pro" room set up like that, for example. Things like that could be useful.

Yeah, what I envision is more of an opportunity to gain some tools to put in the tool box rather than a one size fits all approach to recording. I've been recording informally since the 90s, but I still keep my eyes and ears open for other approaches that may come in handy.

[Luke_]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Thoroughly go through the threads on this recording sub-forum. Since the input is from people who are specifically familiar with recording a guitar a lot of it is very informative. Also a google search of what is on the internet will bring up a ton. It's all out there and you will get variety as it is explained from different angles

My problem is reading and comprehending. It's a personal trait for me, I just don't do it well. Lots of the abbreviations, terminology and my lack of experience make it hard to understand. I read and re-read, and just can't fill in some of the holes. I understand better by watching, rather than reading. The array of angles makes it confusing as well