Too many overtones

[Geof S.]

Originally Posted by Glennwillow

I have never owned a Goodall, but this was my experience with a Goodall Rosewood dread -- just too many overtones for the relatively busy fingerstyle music I play.

- Glenn

I had the same experience with an Avalon L32. A beautiful, great sounding guitar that just did not fit my playing style.

[Lillis]

I enjoy the occasional zombie thread. I usually find they are still relevant. I do a lot of searches instead of starting new threads though. I just got my first rosewood guitar a Larrivee OM09. I'm enjoying the overtones. It's fun switching between RW,maple and mahogany.

[TBman]

I wouldn't know an overtone if I tripped over it.

[CharlieBman]

You can never have too many overtones at your fingertips. It all depends on how you use them.

[Zaam]

I have an OM that is fairly "overtone rich" and it forced me to adapt my playing style to include more damping and muting with my right hand. It took about six months to tame the beast, but the sound I get now is rich and rewarding.
I love the possibilities it offers.

That said, I played a lovely Martin Custom Shop 000 with back and sides made of waterfall bubinga. The sound was enchanting, but I could only imagine trying to record with it. I'd liken it to playing a piano with the damper pedal always down. For certain types of chord-based music I could see it working, but playing lines became a sonic mess very quickly. Notes just did not want to ever go away, lol.

[soma5]

Originally Posted by Howard Emerson

On all of my guitars I place felt under the strings behind the nut, and on my archtop I also have felt woven through the strings in front of the tailpiece.

A lot of people don't seem to hear the ringing behind the nut, but it's always stuck out like a sore thumb to my ears. This is especially true when using open tunings due to multiple roots or fifths, etc.

Aside from that I try not to pay attention to my strings when I first put them on, although both my main guitars are maple body and don't have a whole lot of overtones to begin with.

HE

This. I can't see how to play well enough to damp the strings behind the nut. I started putting velcro straps behind the nut when I got a guitar that was too ringy there. At first I didn't bond with the guitar. I got no sympathy from the builder ("Can you believe someone complained because the guitar was too resonant?") . I have found that it often suffices to damp just the G and D strings, most of the time.

I used to prefer guitars with mahogany back and sides to tame these things. My technique has improved to be able to control the sound of the strings on the soundhole side of the nut, but I still put something behind the nut on my more resonant guitars.

[BrunoBlack]

Well, like so much in life. It depends. Not for me because I have quite a few guitars and appreciate having a range of characteristics and tonal qualities. I have one Adi/EIR guitar with overtones a-plenty, that would be too strong for some playing. However I have an all-mahogany guitar that sits at the other end of the spectrum, with a bunch of guitars in between. Pick the right tool when possible. If I only had 1 guitar, that would present me with a different set of decisions.

[brancher]

You can somewhat control the lushness and overtone-ness with a judicious change in strings. I have a Cedar/Rosewood that is uber-lush, so when I do instrumentals it is beautiful, but when I compete with my voice - not so much. Changing to a silk and steel, silk and bronze, or a 'flatter' string like JP's that settle so quickly.

In this case, installing some Elixir nano electric strings (nanos) brought my lushness down to a beautiful, fundamental sound with just the right tones and sustain. I also use Thomastiks on occasion (not crazy about the price) and Martin Silk'n'Steels.


Works for me. YMMV.

[Mbroady]

I remember this thread when it first came out and at the time I would have said you can’t have enough overtones.

Be careful what you ask for. A few years back I picked up a beautiful Red Furch GC Cedar top. Wow. Sounded like I was sitting in a reverb chamber. Just did not know what to do with it. Sent it back. Still a Furch fan and not opposed to cedar but I do feel there is a such a thing as to lush for me.

[musicman1951]

Originally Posted by Mbroady

I remember this thread when it first came out and at the time I would have said you can’t have enough overtones.

Be careful what you ask for. A few years back I picked up a beautiful Red Furch GC Cedar top. Wow. Sounded like I was sitting in a reverb chamber. Just did not know what to do with it. Sent it back. Still a Furch fan and not opposed to cedar but I do feel there is a such a thing as to lush for me.

I'm inclined to say I can't have too many overtones, but someday I might play a guitar that changes my mind. I've certainly auditioned a bunch of guitars with too few overtones for my taste.

[perttime]

I like a guitar with a lot of overtones.
But yes, there are people, or playing styles, where lots of overtones is too much. Strong fundamental and less overtones can work very well. Depends on what you want or like.

[donlyn]

Too many overtones

Is this a thing? Not me.

While I keep guitars of different woods depending on what results I want, my favorite(s) are spruce over rosewood. Jumboes. Overtones 'R' Us. I fingerpick all my guitars, and realize that full strumming them is usually not what I want to hear, but fingerpicking is. I don't use picks of any sort except my fingernails.

So I guess overall I like full overtones. And with Jumbo guitars, you can get great overtones no matter what woods you choose for playing.

Be well, play well, and love those long multi-layered decays,

Don
.

[Mr. Jelly]

Don't 12 string guitars have more overtones than six string guitars?

[jmagill]

Overtones are the harmonic frequencies complementing the fundamental tones. These can be partials of the plucked strings (5ths, 3ds, octaves, etc.) and can also encompass sympathetic vibrations in the unplucked strings as well.

As Howard has mentioned, they can also cause unwanted ringing in the string section between the nut and the tuners, and in instruments with a floating bridge, like archtop guitars and mandolins, in the section between the bridge and tailpiece as well. We mandolin players have been muting these sections with felt or leather for years.

The amount of overtones an instrument has is built into the instrument. It either has a lot or it doesn't. The extra strings on a 12-string don't increase an instrument's overtones. You can't add or subtract them, but you can, to some extent, control their prominence through strings and technique as others have mentioned, but this is limited. If it has too many for your playing style, its time to think about making a change.

They are not the same as sustain, although a long sustain can make them more noticeable, which some may or may not care for. Nor are they the same as timbre (tone) which describes the quality of the sound (warm, bright, brash, intimate, etc.). They live in the background, and with the right balance, they can add a pleasing richness, complexity and spaciousness to the plucked notes.
.

[BlueBowman]

Like Mbroady, I used to think you couldn’t have too many overtones, but after buying my Halcyon, I now think differently. That guitar has SO many overtones and natural reverb. It’s kinda like the Yamaha transacoustic effect but with a more natural sound.

It’s lovely, and for certain styles, it’s perfect. But no technique I know of (short of putting in a PU) can make an overtone-rich guitar have more clarity. Technique allows me to control sustain and volume, but on faster songs, it’s tough to get that clarity I sometimes crave. Martin Retro’s do help.

Like everything else, it’s all preference. I let the Halcyon do what it does best on certain songs and then use other guitars when a drier clarity is needed.