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  #16  
Old 11-27-2020, 04:26 PM
S.bowman S.bowman is offline
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Originally Posted by Br1ck View Post
Let me use the analogy of my totally analog stereo system. The signal starts with a stylus riding in a groove, which is translated to an electronic signal by the cartridge. People spend a lot of time and money getting this right. If you don't like the sound coming off your cartridge, you spend a lot of effort trying to modify the signal so you do. If you do like this sound, you will want everything down the stream to reproduce this faithfully.

The cart is analogous to your pickup. Now take the much loved K&K. Reproduce this faithfully and you will have more mud in the low end than anyone would want, and probably too much high end, and a peak in the mids, so you need as much EQ as you can get.

So I have a decent cartridge I like the sound of, and a series of gain stages, the first to replicate the signal, and later gain stages to color the sound to please my ears. How is this accomplished? Buy choosing tubes and the basic design topography then speakers for the sound I want. Tone controls? EQ? I have none. The first tube in my pre does everything I want. Telefunken? A bit bright. Mullard, a bit warm. Amperex Bugle boy is just right.

For my guitars, I take the proper Dazzo pickup into the simple SunnAudio pre. Simple not describing the circuit, but the lack of all the unneeded bells and whistles. It takes a signal and reproduces it in a very linear fashion, without the peaks and valleys most consumer pres produce. Now when you get to Grace level design you are buying good gear, but I would not use most of the features it provides.

Now the Tonedexter take this I don't like the sound of the pickup, and replaces it with the mic sound, a very cleaver approach. So the need for a K&K is to make the tone usable and thus four bands of EQ, enough to compensate for the pickup and the gain stage in the pre. The RedEye is another linear gain stage product. The designer added a treble knob for marketing more than anything. When I talked to him, he called it the dead string knob. I am not saying that given the correct equipment like a Grace pre, you can't make a K&K sound good, you can. But the signal coming from my guitar is something needing no EQ. I don't use the EQ on my SunnAudio Stage DI except when I need to fatten up the tone of my cheap JJB equipped archtop. Then I crank the bass. But I wasn't willing to put the right Dazzos into a really cheap guitar. The simplification of my rig is rewarding.
I have yet to hear an acoustic pick up that I preferred over the sound of a well placed mic. (or two) Problem is, that won't work for me in a live setting, so the Tone Dexter is interesting, in that you can store multiple mic IRs. I own several decent miss, and have access to many more via a buddy with a pro studio and a gear addiction. But Im not sold on that route. I appreciate your input. I was unaware of the Dazzos pick ups, so now I have some more reading to do.
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  #17  
Old 11-27-2020, 04:28 PM
S.bowman S.bowman is offline
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Originally Posted by fingeryoga View Post
I have a bix and felix , both are amazing. Bix for the price is fantastic.
Have you had occasion to use the Anthem sl pickup with the Bix? Im real curious as to whether they will play nice together.
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  #18  
Old 11-27-2020, 04:49 PM
Mandobart Mandobart is online now
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I started with an ART Tube, but got tired of needing a wall-wart. I went next to the trusty Behringer ADI21. Surprisingly suck-free, especially for the low price. But I didn't like to have to bend down to the floor to make adjustments.

Next I got a K&K Pure. I really liked having volume and EQ right on my belt and battery powered. I used it for years and still keep it handy as a backup.

I finally went with a fire eye RedEye. Battery or phantom power, built in boost, nothing to futz with, good sound. I only need it, however, when I plug into a house or unknown system. When I play through my Carvin AG300 set on HI Z no preamp is needed
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  #19  
Old 11-27-2020, 05:53 PM
phcorrigan phcorrigan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S.bowman View Post
I have yet to hear an acoustic pick up that I preferred over the sound of a well placed mic. (or two) Problem is, that won't work for me in a live setting, so the Tone Dexter is interesting, in that you can store multiple mic IRs. I own several decent miss, and have access to many more via a buddy with a pro studio and a gear addiction. But Im not sold on that route. I appreciate your input. I was unaware of the Dazzos pick ups, so now I have some more reading to do.
The ToneDexter isn't perfect, but so far it's the best-sounding alternative to a mic'd guitar I've found. I'd suggest checking out some of the videos on the AudioSprockets web site. Sweetwater has their own video with multiple instruments.
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  #20  
Old 11-27-2020, 05:59 PM
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Doug Young Doug Young is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S.bowman View Post
This is one of the videos I watched. For demo purposes they should have killed the verb. The low end just sounds awful.(Sorry if this is a board member playing this demo. The playing is great, just not a tone I'm after.
https://youtu.be/iqIoJ0fwH9c

The Grace preamps are all fantastic studio-grade preamps. They put out exactly what goes into them, clean and uncolored. I'd say in this case, the Bix is accurately conveying a typical bad-sounding UST. That "compression" sounds like a typical plasticy UST to me.

The only preamp I know of that can "fix" that pickup sound is ToneDexter, but not because of the preamp part, ToneDexter is a preamp+an IR effect, that can greatly improve the sound of a pickup like this. There is one more choice now, the Baggs Soundscape, which is also an IR device.

But as far as straight preamps, I doubt any could really fix that pickup sound.
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  #21  
Old 11-27-2020, 07:03 PM
sdelsolray sdelsolray is offline
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For about 20 years, I've been using a Pendulum SPS-1 for solo fingerstyle and classical, internal pickup and condenser mic (usually external).
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  #22  
Old 11-27-2020, 07:39 PM
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Doug Young Doug Young is offline
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To answer the question, I've most recently used the Grace Felix, ToneDexter, and Sunnaudio MS-2. Currently (if there was any current performing going on), using the Sunnaudio with ToneDexter as IRs.
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  #23  
Old 11-28-2020, 07:43 AM
varmonter varmonter is offline
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I agree that video wasn't very good.
Very mid low heavy. Not a good representation of what grace preamps can do. I dont own the Bix. But I've have and regularly use the Grace Felix. Superb high end
Stuff in my opinion. That video was
Odd in that it was a traditional
Bluegrass song (Angeline the baker)done in a drop tuning
With a dark ambience. Perhaps that
was what the artist was going for.
In which case he nailed it. Grace can do better. At least the felix can. I currently
Use an hx stomp into the felix.
And I also use a magnetic pickup
So I dont get all the piezo woes mentioned
Here. But Grace designs preamps are superb.
The bix doesnt have a midrange eq adj.
Which I like on the felix.
I had a tonedexter for about 5 months and sold it.
Just didnt work for me. But if I want to use IR's I can with the stomp.

Last edited by varmonter; 12-02-2020 at 01:55 PM.
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  #24  
Old 11-28-2020, 07:51 AM
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KevWind KevWind is offline
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I don't know if they are still being Mfg. , but my in gigging system (sitting unused ) I use the Manley --Langevin 2 channel DVC (Dual Vocal Combo)

Its the red unit with the analog VU's
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  #25  
Old 11-28-2020, 09:41 AM
Crash-VR Crash-VR is offline
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I’ve had a Felix for years now. I’ve used it with multiple pickups and mics and various combinations. It’s probably the highest quality floor preamp you can buy. Just plug a vocal mic into it and it will blow your mind how much better it sounds. The difference between my anthem into the Felix and straight into the board is astronomical. Not subtle at all. That said, it’s taken a long time for me to get a grip on such a powerful true parametric EQ. Tiny adjustments make a huge difference. When your using both channels and blending sources it can get a little overwhelming. After enough time with it though, I can’t use anything else. I feel crippled by anything less. The EQ is so powerful you can really shape your sound. But it’s the combination of high and low shelf and the mid curve in between. The three knobs that shape the mids are critical, which the Blix doesn’t have, do I would personally avoid it. I will say that the anthem sounds great with everything close to noon on the Felix, so that alone tells me that they pair very well together.
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  #26  
Old 11-28-2020, 10:30 AM
mathieu rancour mathieu rancour is offline
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I ve got A Félix grace design and it’s fantastic, I run a k&k in one channel with the adjustable impedance to 1mhom and I run my Seymour Duncan mag mic in the other channel with the right impedance , both got their own eq and run them stereo pan to 10 & 2 o’clock and it’s working great
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  #27  
Old 11-28-2020, 01:42 PM
euraquilo euraquilo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Young View Post
There is one more choice now, the Baggs Soundscape, which is also an IR device.
Also the NU-X Optima Air.
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  #28  
Old 11-28-2020, 05:40 PM
S.bowman S.bowman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by euraquilo View Post
Also the NU-X Optima Air.
I have been using the Fractal audio Axfx 8 , and the AXFX II for several year now on electric. I have IRs of a lot of acoustics and mics in the AX 8. It does a great job on electric, but acoustics just seem to be lacking something. I’m surprised that Fractal hasn't come out with an acoustic specific modeler. I am thinking I will try the AX8 in the loop of the Bix, for Reverb and such. I ordered the Bix last night, and am excited to get it plugged up.
Thanks everyone for all of the good info. I learned a lot in this thread!

Last edited by S.bowman; 11-28-2020 at 07:07 PM.
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  #29  
Old 11-28-2020, 06:55 PM
Crash-VR Crash-VR is offline
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Good job! You can’t go wrong with Grace Design.
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  #30  
Old 11-28-2020, 07:15 PM
S.bowman S.bowman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crash-VR View Post
Good job! You can’t go wrong with Grace Design.
I spoke wth my Sweetwater Rep before pulling the trigger, and he had had the opportunity to try many different acoustic through all 3 of the Grace Designs Pres. He said they all sounded fantastic, but he could not remember if any had the Anthem SL installed. I'm thinking that since I like the sound of the pickup through a DI and my Presonus board, I'm going to like the Bix even more.
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