How did you learn Barre(F) Chord?

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Rinaz

How did you learn Barre(F) Chord? I pressed as hard as I can on the finger that creates the bar but I can only do the notes on 6th, 1st, and 2nd strings. I wanna do all 6 of them. How did you do it? please share tips and experience

Hi Rinaz
Playing barre chords, and the Barre F in particular, is not a matter of strength. It is a helpful to have the guitar setup with fairly low action. It is also not helpful to try to barre straight across the fret (as pictured above in tinittus' post).

If you are having issues 'overpowering' the strings in the first fret (or any other fret), I'd have your nut slot depth checked out and set properly.

Also if you are dropping the neck back to waist-to-chest level, it will be more difficult than if you elevate the headstock at chin-to-nose level.

I'm posting three 1-minute-videos (from the far distant year 2008) that I did on barres for students and friends (I really need to reshoot these).



Where is the Pressure? - CLiCK



Barre From Above and Behind - CLiCK



Barre from Front - CLiCK



These should give you ideas to improve your experiments and find what works with your hands/arms/guitar.

Hope this adds to the discussion…

[rick-slo]

F chord is not a particularly hard chord shape. It's just that the full barre F chord is on the first fret. Very important to have nut slots the right depth.

[Tannin]

Good tips above, but two or three more to add:

* The closer to the fret your finger is, the less you need to press. Experiment with getting your index finger right up to where the fret is - as far as you can go without buzzing.

* Roll your wrist to rotate your index finger so that you are using the side of it to press the strings. (Don't go too far, just a little is enough.) This has two benefits: first, there is less flesh on the side of your finger; bone presses better than a thick pad of flesh does. Try it: you will see that it is easier. Second, because of the natural slight curve of your finger when you do this, it makes it easier and more natural to press only on the strings you need - the 1st, 2nd, and 6th.

* Remember that you don't need to press on the 3rd, 4th, and 5th strings with your index finger, only the other three. Time enough to worry about getting those three tight as well when you start taking your other fingers off to play chord variations like minors and sevenths.

* Think about timing. You generally don't need to hold the chord in a death grip, you mostly only need to press hard enough to sound the notes just as your right hand comes down to strum, and for however long afterwards you want to sustain the notes. Between times, you can relax a little.

[Black-n-Nan]

Originally Posted by Rinaz

How did you learn Barre(F) Chord? I pressed as hard as I can on the finger that creates the bar but I can only do the notes on 6th, 1st, and 2nd strings. I wanna do all 6 of them. How did you do it? please share tips and experience

It’s not a matter of pressure at all. Some folks try to squeeze the neck between index and thumb, which is totally wrong! Barre chord can be easily taken without thumb at all. Just pull your arm toward you as if you “bend” the neck. Move thumb away from the neck. This gives you understanding, that thumb is just to support you hand, not for pressure. Index finger is to be slightly angled.

P.S. Sorry for my English

[PHJim]

Originally Posted by tonyo

Similarly, it took me a few months before the barre(F) chord sounded clean. I just stuck with it, didn't try the lazy F or other options, I was determined to get the barre(F) working and it was worth it.

I'm not sure what you mean by "the lazy F".
I'll admit that I don't often barre an F chord. Through finger picking, I usually wrap my thumb and play 1X3211, leaving my pinky free to grab melody notes that are not fretted in the chord. Strangely enough, I almost always use a barre chord up the neck for G or A...
If I'm flat picking using cowboy chords in the key of C, I'll often play the XX3211 shape and rock my 3rd finger between the 4th and 5th strings for the bass note.

[Raymwiii]

I literally cried... actually shed tears the first time I tried to play my first F chord on my fat necked Yamaha acoustic. It was so hard to get and it sounded awful and didn't seem humanly possible.

I can do it now fairly well, still improving but doesn't seem impossible like it used to.

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by Black-n-Nan

It’s not a matter of pressure at all. Some folks try to squeeze the neck between index and thumb, which is totally wrong! Barre chord can be easily taken without thumb at all. Just pull your arm toward you as if you “bend” the neck. Move thumb away from the neck. This gives you understanding, that thumb is just to support you hand, not for pressure. Index finger is to be slightly angled.

P.S. Sorry for my English

Could do things that way but not really a good idea. Less precision, less speed on a chord change, and being that it is quite a pull
back on the neck to prevent buzzing notes on this first fret barre, at least on an acoustic guitar, you might even make the notes play sharp.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by Rinaz

How did you learn Barre(F) Chord? I pressed as hard as I can on the finger that creates the bar but I can only do the notes on 6th, 1st, and 2nd strings.

That's it, that's all you need! Your other 3 fingers fret the other strings!

At some point, you will need to learn to get the 3rd string too (for the minor version of that shape), or the 4th (for the 7th version), but for now congratulate yourself and get those other fingers down!

Make sure to practice it in higher neck positions too.

As the others point out, there are various (quite legal) cheats to get the F chord working, and you don't actually need all 6 strings to sound. A useful lazy one is the middle 4 strings, one finger each, with the 6th muted by the thumb, and the 1st muted by the index leaning over.

[BadWithNames]

Originally Posted by Black-n-Nan

It’s not a matter of pressure at all. Some folks try to squeeze the neck between index and thumb, which is totally wrong! Barre chord can be easily taken without thumb at all. Just pull your arm toward you as if you “bend” the neck. Move thumb away from the neck. This gives you understanding, that thumb is just to support you hand, not for pressure. Index finger is to be slightly angled.

P.S. Sorry for my English

I've heard this before (from a Berklee prof on Coursera); have some trouble making it work. Feels like I have to apply a lot of pressure with my right arm to keep the guitar from moving.

[Black-n-Nan]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Could do things that way but not really a good idea. Less precision, less speed on a chord change, and being that it is quite a pull
back on the neck to prevent buzzing notes on this first fret barre, at least on an acoustic guitar, you might even make the notes play sharp.

To be honest, I do not play this way it’s just the exercise for understanding how it works. Anyway, I can put my index finger with no thumb at any fret up the neck, and get all six string ring. The setup is perfect. Excessive thumb/index pressure will give pain to the palm, not more.

[mlazare]

I have a drill that worked for me years ago. I kept noodling between playing a Csus4 and a Fmaj7 just be adding and removing my middling finger on the G string. This puts all your fingers in the proper position and all you have to do is lay down your index finger. I promise that if you do this for 10-15 minutes you will have the F down. Works for everybody I have shared with and it will work for you too !

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by BadWithNames

I've heard this before (from a Berklee prof on Coursera); have some trouble making it work. Feels like I have to apply a lot of pressure with my right arm to keep the guitar from moving.

Yes, that principle is often exaggerated. The truth is that both the thumb and the "pull-back" is employed, supporting each other.

I was very dubious when I first heard about that idea - that the thumb needs no pressure at all - but I examined my own (subconscious) technique, and I found that if I released my right arm from the guitar, so that all the pressure was coming from the thumb, then the thumb needed to press harder. So I was bracing the guitar with the right arm and pulling back (a little) with the left without realising it.
But I also tried the opposite: holding the barre purely by bracing and pulling back, taking the thumb off the neck. It worked, but felt terribly unnatural.
Moreover, that amount of pull-back can bend the neck, putting the guitar sharp.

There are others that say it's somehow in the weight of the left arm. But that makes no sense because - unless you play with the fretboard facing upward! - the weight of the arm would tend to make the hand fall downwards off the guitar - if you weren't actually pinching with thumb and index to keep it there!
The "weight of the arm" idea only makes sense if your elbow is rigid. Then the weight of the whole arm would pivot from the shoulder as an L-shape, which would exert some backward as well as downward pressure on the fretboard.

IMO, the truth is some combination of all three of these. The main element is the pinch between thumb and index, it has to be. But there is an essential back-up from both arms: the right bracing the guitar the left pulling back (almost subliminally). And there is probably some element of the weight of the arm too, at least if the shoulder is as relaxed as it should be.

The fact is that the more you practice barres, the less the sensation of pressure required. It's as if your hands learn the optimum distribution of force automatically. To begin with, you're applying pressure consciously and chaotically, because you don't know how to consciously balance all the small muscle movements required; that's the job of the hands (the part of your subconscious that controls the hands), to sort that balance out.

Naturally, practice also increase hand strength, but that's only part of it. I don't suppose the grip strength in my fret hand is any stronger than my right, and probably less. It must have increased since I first took up guitar, but not enough to account for how easy barre chords now feel.

[jseth]

Originally Posted by PHJim

I'm not sure what you mean by "the lazy F".
I'll admit that I don't often barre an F chord. Through finger picking, I usually wrap my thumb and play 1X3211, leaving my pinky free to grab melody notes that are not fretted in the chord. Strangely enough, I almost always use a barre chord up the neck for G or A...
If I'm flat picking using cowboy chords in the key of C, I'll often play the XX3211 shape and rock my 3rd finger between the 4th and 5th strings for the bass note.

I always refer to that shape as the Rock and Roll F chord or the Blues F chord. It is intrinsic t playing roots blues and rock, and very useful to know and be comfortable with...

Barre chords have their place, no doubt, but both shapes are very good to know and to become fluent with...

It's all part of the journey...

[Black-n-Nan]

Originally Posted by JonPR

Yes, that principle is often exaggerated. The truth is that both the thumb and the "pull-back" is employed, supporting each other.

I was very dubious when I first heard about that idea - that the thumb needs no pressure at all - but I examined my own (subconscious) technique, and I found that if I released my right arm from the guitar, so that all the pressure was coming from the thumb, then the thumb needed to press harder. So I was bracing the guitar with the right arm and pulling back (a little) with the left without realising it.
But I also tried the opposite: holding the barre purely by bracing and pulling back, taking the thumb off the neck. It worked, but felt terribly unnatural.
Moreover, that amount of pull-back can bend the neck, putting the guitar sharp.

There are others that say it's somehow in the weight of the left arm. But that makes no sense because - unless you play with the fretboard facing upward! - the weight of the arm would tend to make the hand fall downwards off the guitar - if you weren't actually pinching with thumb and index to keep it there!
The "weight of the arm" idea only makes sense if your elbow is rigid. Then the weight of the whole arm would pivot from the shoulder as an L-shape, which would exert some backward as well as downward pressure on the fretboard.

IMO, the truth is some combination of all three of these. The main element is the pinch between thumb and index, it has to be. But there is an essential back-up from both arms: the right bracing the guitar the left pulling back (almost subliminally). And there is probably some element of the weight of the arm too, at least if the shoulder is as relaxed as it should be.

The fact is that the more you practice barres, the less the sensation of pressure required. It's as if your hands learn the optimum distribution of force automatically. To begin with, you're applying pressure consciously and chaotically, because you don't know how to consciously balance all the small muscle movements required; that's the job of the hands (the part of your subconscious that controls the hands), to sort that balance out.

Naturally, practice also increase hand strength, but that's only part of it. I don't suppose the grip strength in my fret hand is any stronger than my right, and probably less. It must have increased since I first took up guitar, but not enough to account for how easy barre chords now feel.

Bravo! Couldn’t say better!

[tinnitus]

Originally Posted by JonPR

...

The fact is that the more you practice barres, the less the sensation of pressure required. It's as if your hands learn the optimum distribution of force automatically. To begin with, you're applying pressure consciously and chaotically, because you don't know how to consciously balance all the small muscle movements required; that's the job of the hands (the part of your subconscious that controls the hands), to sort that balance out.
...

Well-said, JonPR.

After decades of helping so-so amateur guitarists learn various techniques to become competent rock players, I find myself pushing 65 and teaching my adult daughter how to play guitar from scratch - zero - never touched one before. So this is new to me, endeavoring to instill good habits while avoiding bad ones. Tall order, attempting to articulate things aloud that I figured out on my own in 1970 (strumming techniques, difficult chords vs capo-ing, scales, intervals and arpeggios lurking within chords, double-stops, etc.).

Your comment: "That's the job of the hands (the part of your subconscious that controls the hands)" is spot on! In fact it's my saving grace as a "teacher."

Recalling how things improved for me as a kid with practice/repetition, I've seen that same process occur with my daughter, just since December when she got her first guitar.
- fingers start making their way to chords
- chords become cleaner
- strumming improves
- the pick finds root notes and avoids strings (sour notes) that don't belong
- tempo improves and rhythmic palm-muting materializes out of thin air
- syncopated lyrics become less disruptive to playing

So, regarding the cumbersome F chord - however it is fingered...

I recommend finding 2 or 3 songs that include an F chord. Play that phrase several times per session, and add more short sessions maybe 5-6 times every day. Guitars stored in dusty cases often stay there. My daughter's guitar resides on a stand in her den, where she sees it and grabs it up (maybe just for a minute) several times a day. I can see/hear obvious improvements every single weekend when she comes over to play.

Combined with honest desire and effort, technique in anything can actually improve between sessions as the subconscious gnaws on the process of getting better. Even with its unique challenges, a clean F chord is just another example of this.

Bonus points for nailing a clear F barre on an acoustic 12-string!