NGD: McPherson Sable Gold Honeycomb + Review

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by GuitarLuva

"If it ain't broke don't fix it". I can't help it I'm a tinkerer and sometimes I wish I wasn't. That being said though I do enjoy working on my own guitars and have been doing it for a long time but can totally understand not wanting to mess with them.

Well, that is another great aspect of guitars. Those who want to tinker, can, and those who don't, don't have to.

You mentioned strings and experimenting with those. I am using the Elixir HD Lights, the strings that Andy Powers worked with Elixir on putting together as the strings Taylor ships with their guitars (at least the higher end Builder's Edition). Since my McPherson plays so much like my Taylor, I tried them and really like them on ti too. I like using the same kind of strings across several guitars because it is much easier to keep track of and quantity buys save me money.

Tony

[GuitarLuva]

Originally Posted by tbeltrans

I am using the Elixir HD Lights, the strings that Andy Powers worked with Elixir on putting together as the strings Taylor ships with their guitars (at least the higher end Builder's Edition). Since my McPherson plays so much like my Taylor, I tried them and really like them on ti too. I like using the same kind of strings across several guitars because it is much easier to keep track of and quantity buys save me money.
Tony

Are those HD lights that you're using phosphor bronze or 80/20 bronze? I certainly agree with the idea of using the same strings across guitars that's the way I was hoping it could be. Unfortunately for me though my guitars are too different and it didn't work out the way I had hoped!

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by GuitarLuva

Are those HD lights that you're using phosphor bronze or 80/20 bronze? I certainly agree with the idea of using the same strings across guitars that's the way I was hoping it could be. Unfortunately for me though my guitars are too different and it didn't work out the way I had hoped!

They are phosphor bronze: https://www.stringsandbeyond.com/elhdacst.html

Tony

[jonfields45]

Originally Posted by tbeltrans

Jon, would you please elaborate on that since I am not familiar with IT other than that it apparently involves something like a voice print of the guitar fed into some sort of preamp? How would you do this with a stock McPherson and into what preamp?

Thanks,

Tony

An IR is a program for a type of filter which can make a pickup sound like a mic (and many other useful things). ToneDexter, Aura, and LR Baggs Soundscape are three examples of IR based products (with ToneDexter and Soundscape you create a custom IR, for Aura you download a close enough match from the Fishman website). Under saddle transducers like the stock Element in a Sable are great starting points for an IR based improvement in tone. I've written an IR generator that you can run on your PC or Mac, if you are interested.

[jonfields45]

Originally Posted by GuitarLuva

Jon,

No I didn't. Are you asking because you would like one for the IR database? If so that's not a problem and the least I could do for you guys sharing that stuff with the public. I haven't even made one for the HFN in the Sable yet.

Just curious if you could get close enough to the HFN that you could live with the Element (given an IR).

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by jonfields45

An IR is a program for a type of filter which can make a pickup sound like a mic (and many other useful things). ToneDexter, Aura, and LR Baggs Soundscape are three examples of IR based products (with ToneDexter and Soundscape you create a custom IR, for Aura you download a close enough match from the Fishman website). Under saddle transducers like the stock Element in a Sable are great starting points for an IR based improvement in tone. I've written an IR generator that you can run on your PC or Mac, if you are interested.

Thanks Jon. I am familiar with various types of filters such as comb filters, high pass, low pass, shelving, bandpass, etc. This seems possibly dynamic in some way? A type of spectrum filter?

Tony

[GuitarLuva]

Originally Posted by tbeltrans

They are phosphor bronze: https://www.stringsandbeyond.com/elhdacst.html

Tony

Thanks for the link I will add it to my future list of strings to try.

Originally Posted by jonfields45

Just curious if you could get close enough to the HFN that you could live with the Element (given an IR).

Ahhh I see. I never had any intentions of keeping the element but perhaps I should've made an IR before I removed it. I just finished making an IR for the Sable/HFN with your algorithm and same as before the results are awesome!

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by GuitarLuva

Thanks Dave, we'll never run out of things to talk about regarding guitars! I normally favor the putty with the HFN but found the tape to work better than the putty in the Sable, so there's that!



Also strings. Have you experimented with different strings yet?



Oh and the weather up here was starting to look good until today...flurries! Winter just won't go away.

Yup, tape worked better. [crickets...]

[Frettingflyer]

Originally Posted by tbeltrans

Well, that is another great aspect of guitars. Those who want to tinker, can, and those who don't, don't have to.

You mentioned strings and experimenting with those. I am using the Elixir HD Lights, the strings that Andy Powers worked with Elixir on putting together as the strings Taylor ships with their guitars (at least the higher end Builder's Edition). Since my McPherson plays so much like my Taylor, I tried them and really like them on ti too. I like using the same kind of strings across several guitars because it is much easier to keep track of and quantity buys save me money.

Tony

To echo Tony, I switched to lights and didn’t care for the sound, but had a partial set of HD lights around so put the heavier E and B on and it sounds pretty good. Not sure if I will return to Mediums or stick with the HD lights( I know, right now my G is still from the light set, but that was the missing string). So far only using the Elixer PB strings but this was my first string change.

[jonfields45]

Originally Posted by tbeltrans

Thanks Jon. I am familiar with various types of filters such as comb filters, high pass, low pass, shelving, bandpass, etc. This seems possibly dynamic in some way? A type of spectrum filter?

Tony

All those filters you quoted are "IIR" filters. Implemented digitally they all have feedback. They were all "classically" designed/discovered and engineering students will at least be exposed to the inventor as they are named after them. They are efficient (hardware or software) but not easily designed by computers.

Impulse Responses are used to program "FIR" filters which can only be implemented digitally and have no feedback. FIR filters can be designed directly by hand, or turned over to a computer to implement. My IR generator uses 64K frequency coefficients/bands about 1/3 Hz apart to generate a filter to make a pickup recording sound like a mic recording. No way an IIR filter could ever touch that kind of detail and resolution, but until cheap computers my filter would be an impractical academic demonstration.

Aura, ToneDexter, Soundscape, MamaBear, and a few other make-my-pickup-sound-like-a-mic products are based on this kind of solution.

[jonfields45]

Originally Posted by GuitarLuva

Thanks for the link I will add it to my future list of strings to try.



Ahhh I see. I never had any intentions of keeping the element but perhaps I should've made an IR before I removed it. I just finished making an IR for the Sable/HFN with your algorithm and same as before the results are awesome!

Since you are deeply familiar with SBTs, if you could be satisfied with an IR'ed UST, that would be a huge statement!

Almost worth the trouble to put it back and see :~)???

If only you were stuck at home with time on your hands...

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by jonfields45

Since you are deeply familiar with SBTs, if you could be satisfied with an IR'ed UST, that would be a huge statement!

Almost worth the trouble to put it back and see :~)???

If only you were stuck at home with time on your hands...

Dunno Jon, it’s basically a religious adherence thing with us SBT people. I’m not sure he’s up for blasphemy in his spare time.

[GuitarLuva]

Originally Posted by jonfields45

Since you are deeply familiar with SBTs, if you could be satisfied with an IR'ed UST, that would be a huge statement!

Almost worth the trouble to put it back and see :~)???

If only you were stuck at home with time on your hands...

In all honesty I think I could be satisfied with a UST+IR if it wasn't the element. I could get along fine with a Matrix or another that doesn't impact the unplugged tone of the guitar too much.

I'm not stuck at home though I still consider myself lucky to be working full time through this mess. A part of me is a little jealous as I could make good use of that time!

Originally Posted by martingitdave

Dunno Jon, it’s basically a religious adherence thing with us SBT people. I’m not sure he’s up for blasphemy in his spare time.

Agreed, I'm certainly an SBT guy for sure. It's too bad they couldn't make the element have less of an impact on the acoustic voice of a guitar.

[GuitarLuva]

Originally Posted by Frettingflyer

To echo Tony, I switched to lights and didn’t care for the sound, but had a partial set of HD lights around so put the heavier E and B on and it sounds pretty good. Not sure if I will return to Mediums or stick with the HD lights( I know, right now my G is still from the light set, but that was the missing string). So far only using the Elixer PB strings but this was my first string change.

I usually favor bluegrass gauge on my guitars. It makes it easier to bend the treble strings and you still get the heavier bass strings. I currently have Elixir PB lights on there now and don't mind them. I do think the 80/20 were a good match for the guitar though and will be ordering a few sets to try.

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by jonfields45

All those filters you quoted are "IIR" filters. Implemented digitally they all have feedback. They were all "classically" designed/discovered and engineering students will at least be exposed to the inventor as they are named after them. They are efficient (hardware or software) but not easily designed by computers.

Impulse Responses are used to program "FIR" filters which can only be implemented digitally and have no feedback. FIR filters can be designed directly by hand, or turned over to a computer to implement. My IR generator uses 64K frequency coefficients/bands about 1/3 Hz apart to generate a filter to make a pickup recording sound like a mic recording. No way an IIR filter could ever touch that kind of detail and resolution, but until cheap computers my filter would be an impractical academic demonstration.

Aura, ToneDexter, Soundscape, MamaBear, and a few other make-my-pickup-sound-like-a-mic products are based on this kind of solution.

Thanks Jon. That is some pretty serious filtering.

Tony