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  #31  
Old 05-15-2020, 03:25 PM
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Gitaman;

Have you received the OC660? Hurry up.....................
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  #32  
Old 05-16-2020, 12:02 PM
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Also related to Journey, the company is having an incredible sale and its fixed-neck CF guitars are being offered at prices close to the original prices of the Cargo.

(note: I have an appreciation for but no vested interests in Journey).
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  #33  
Old 06-06-2020, 09:14 AM
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Does anyone know the specs for the OC660? Body length, bout widths, weight, and guitar width?
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  #34  
Old 06-06-2020, 02:39 PM
Captain Jim Captain Jim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvanB View Post
Does anyone know the specs for the OC660? Body length, bout widths, weight, and guitar width?
This is as much as I could find: https://journeyinstruments.com/produ...guitar-oc660m/
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Some CF, some wood.
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  #35  
Old 06-06-2020, 03:13 PM
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Thank you Jim. I must have not gone far enough in my previous search because you've pointed to the answers I wanted. Good eye.
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  #36  
Old 06-07-2020, 02:44 PM
Gitaman Gitaman is offline
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Default OC660, keeper?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvanB View Post
Gitaman;

Have you received the OC660? Hurry up.....................
Hey Evan!

Congrats on your latest Emerald nylon! Looks so comfortable
In the mean time, my quest for nylon CF guitar is not so promising. I had hoped OC660 would fill that need and here are the reasons why I am passing on OC660:

1. If you thought OF660 had a squarish shouldered neck, wait til you get your hands on OC660. I am sure there is a reason for it but if that is the only way to accommodate 1 7/8th width, I will settle for 1 3/4 OF660 neck.

2. They recommend loosening the strings prior to take the neck off and I can see why: The strings have to stretch quite a bit for the neck to lock in position. Every time It feels like the strings will break. I am not sure if stretching and loosening of the strings repeatedly would shorten the life span of the strings more so for the nylons that steel but it is more time consuming in both storing and assembing of OC than OF. I would think steel strings are more durable but they are under more tension, so I am not sure.

3. I do not know much about open tuners but two of OC660's tuners were leaking oil which was wiped clean. The oil needed to be washed off the main body as well. I think the bag is smeared with oil inside. In addition, G and high E tuner pegs are very stiff.

4. Although I do not mind full scale, I can play short scale with less effort and I am not going full scale unless something really grabs my heart.

5. The fret ends were not smooth like OF, about as rough as those of my $200 La Mancha nylon and...

6. My 1/2 size La Mancha nylon with solid spruce top sounds sweeter.

Overall, I really wanted to like OC660 but I might be too spoiled with wood nylon and keep thinking there has to be a nylon CF that sounds just as resonant and projecting as wood version. I also wonder if moving the bridge further back is compromising the sweet spot in exchange for higher tension to drive the top. No truss rod bothered me initially and I would like to lower the relief a tiny bit more. However, after sanding down the saddle almost as far as it can go, I got 4mm/3.5mm clearance at the 12th fret. I think I can go a little lower and have no issue at medium volume. By the way, OC feels lighter than OF660 and the neck dives at half the speed of OF660 neck. Regardless, it will never play as smooth as my OF660.

Perhaps it deserves to investigate why CF steel is on par with wooded ones but not CF nylon .. but then I have not tried Emerald nylon yet

BTW, I am not as qualified as others and would not put much weight on my assessment, just a sharing of what I noticed with OC660.

Last edited by Gitaman; 06-07-2020 at 02:53 PM.
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  #37  
Old 06-07-2020, 03:01 PM
Gitaman Gitaman is offline
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A few visuals
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  #38  
Old 06-07-2020, 03:17 PM
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Gitaman;

Good first scouting. It sounds like the Journey is a work in process and I'll be keeping an eye out for other reviews.

Your observation regarding CF working with steel but not so well with nylon is right on the money (in my experience). I think I've had every CF nylon in my hands and only one came close to competing with a good wooden instrument--the Blackbird Rider. (relative to both projection and tone).

CF nylons generally work well in terms of tonal qualities and when driven with a bit of electric they project well--which is one reason I decided to explore CF nylon string electric guitars.
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  #39  
Old 06-07-2020, 04:59 PM
btbliatout btbliatout is offline
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I'm with Evan on CF nylon tone is great, but volume/projection is not so great (compared to solid wood tops). As for amplifying CF nylon guitars, I'd really like to see the in-development ōPik pickup used on a CF nylon. If it can amplify the instrument's sound more naturally than a piezo can (or if any other new technology can), I think the CF nylon niche may expand a bit.
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  #40  
Old 06-08-2020, 09:27 AM
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Bt;

I've been happy with the Barbera pickup. I'm not familiar with the oPik pickup, but will be checking it out.

I'm not as concerned with the pickup as I am with the lack of acoustic projection--it seems to me that CF makers have not yet hit bingo on the soundboard. It could be that to get the CF thin enough to really resonate it would also be too thin to support a saddle.

In terms of projection, the violin might be the instrument to examine--it is one of the smallest string instruments and yet resonates above and beyond far larger instruments. Its soundboard is supported by tone posts, something that might apply to very thin CF guitar tops.

Just sort of thinking out loud.
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  #41  
Old 06-08-2020, 09:34 AM
Fixedgear60 Fixedgear60 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvanB View Post
Bt;

it seems to me that CF makers have not yet hit bingo on the soundboard. It could be that to get the CF thin enough to really resonate it would also be too thin to support a saddle.

In terms of projection, the violin might be the instrument to examine--it is one of the smallest string instruments and yet resonates above and beyond far larger instruments. Its soundboard is supported by tone posts, something that might apply to very thin CF guitar tops.

Just sort of thinking out loud.

Evan .. your post was very interesting...when you compared violin projections verses a guitars. Perhaps the issue is with CF and flat top guitars. Perhaps the answer lies in an archtop guitar with nylon strings? All this talk on the gorgeous Emerald Kestrelon another thread had me wondering if a nylon version could meet these requirements.....

Would be an interesting experiment.....
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  #42  
Old 06-08-2020, 12:29 PM
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Fixed;

I like the idea of an arch topped nylon strung acoustic guitar, but I think it would face the same problems with flat-faced CF guitars--an extremely ridged material. The Emerald arch top, like the Emerald flat-tops, works with steel strings, but I have my doubts about how it would sound with nylon strings.

It could be that a CF face needs the inclusion of something more flexible. I know that concrete can be made flexible with the addition of plastic fibers--perhaps the same sort of thing would work with CF? Or maybe a very thin layer of CF could be overlaid on a different medium (maybe fiberglass or Ekoa?

One member of this forum has used nylon strings on a CF guitar and reports that this works--I do not have the type of guitar mentioned and have not heard any comparisons.

So far I've yet to find a CF nylon string guitar that competes well with a good wooden instrument; and I've given it a hard expensive run. I think it is the premier challenge with CF guitars.
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  #43  
Old 06-09-2020, 06:56 PM
Fixedgear60 Fixedgear60 is offline
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Perhaps making a run at Joe from Blackbird with an eKoa savoy designed for nylon would meet expectations. He clearly knows how to make a composite nylon string instrument with his investment in ukes and remember his nylon Ryder and limited edition super om from back in the day. Their two piece top per your comment on softening cement may just do the trick. The eKoa looks also look just cool without cosmetic veneers also!!

Last edited by Fixedgear60; 06-10-2020 at 09:09 AM.
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  #44  
Old 06-10-2020, 05:59 AM
ceciltguitar ceciltguitar is offline
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Evan, have you tried a Leviora Classical Guitar C2?

https://leviora-guitars.de/en/guitars/c-series/
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  #45  
Old 06-10-2020, 09:28 AM
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Cecil;

Good to hear from you.

I had the road trip Leviora for a week. I did not think it projected to the level of a good wooden instrument. I was also disappointed in its lockstep sense of form--here we have a new medium, one amenable to ergonomic shaping, but continue to pursue the same essential architecture.

This is not to say that it's not a nice guitar, but for the price I thought it should be better.
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