Taylor Expression system vs. Fishman Aura

[Slickstring]

I am thinking of selling my Taylor 314-L2 with the ES and going with the Martin OMC-16RE Aura. I play in public alot and with the ES I can plug straight into the PA. Is this possible with the Aura? I don't want to make a mistake and trade out for something that will not suffice for public venues. The ES seems to be pretty simplified and easy to use. Just asking for opinions on these two from anyone who has done a comparison.

Thanks,
Jerry

[Jerrysimon]

Have you thought of buying a guitar without a pickup as that way you can purchase the guitar you want, rather than a guitar fitted with a certain pickup you desire.

There are some great after fit options for pickups.

If you love the Aura you could get a guitar then have it fitted with a UST and buy an outboard Aura unit.

Regards

Jerry

[rmyAddison]

I've have owned both, and in my opinion there is no comparison, the expression system is very feature limited and has a lot of midrange honk. My experience also includes real world stage time, the Aura is simply better, more natural sound and tons of useful features (Images, EQ, built in tuner, anti feedback, global phase and UST/Aura phase, customized savable images).

While I use an OMC Aura and love it I agree with Jerry that getting a good UST in your Martin and buying the Aura image Blender pedal makes more sense IF you have more than one guitar, as the Aura pedal can hold images for different guitars and be shared.

If the OMC-16RE Aura is to be your only guitar or only stage guitar then the on board electronics are fine, both on board and pedal Auras perform the same. I wish I had bought the pedal as I have multiple guitars that I want to use on stage.

Go to any decent GC, they will have Taylors and Aura Martins. Play through a Fishman performer, very nice clean amp. The difference is pretty obvious, start the Aura on image 3 or 5, let your ears decide. And yes the Aura can go direct to amp or PA, no further electronics needed. Good Luck.

[Slickstring]

Thanks for the responses, you both have been very helpful.

Jerry

[Joe F]

I will agree with rmyAddison. My OMC Aura is the best plugged in sound I've had and I've owned multiple ES guitars. To plug into a PA, all you would need is a simple direct box, or a PADI or somthing to convert from instrument cable to XLR. No muss no fuss.

Before you go experimenting with onboard Aura's however, I would suggest you familiarize yourself with how it works. I've seen many people at the GC trying to figure them out with no idea what the switches do. There are some nice demo videos on the Martin website:

http://www.martinguitar.com/guitars/...ments/aura.htm

[guitaniac]

Joe,

Thanks for the link to the videos. It was quite interesting to learn that the tuner can be converted into a level meter which helps the player adjust the preamp gain to best accomodate his/her playing dynamics. Its nice to see that the Fishman folks have done something to address the quack problem with heavy strumming - even if they'd rather not admit that such a problem exists.

Gary

[Joe F]

Originally Posted by guitaniac

Joe,

Thanks for the link to the videos. It was quite interesting to learn that the tuner can be converted into a level meter which helps the player adjust the preamp gain to best accomodate his/her playing dynamics. Its nice to see that the Fishman folks have done something to address the quack problem with heavy strumming - even if they'd rather not admit that such a problem exists.

Gary

Yah man. If you're coming from a 3 knob ES system like I was, all the bells and whistles on the Aura are somewhat overwhelming at first. Once you've used it for awhile though, it's like anything else you use all the time. A twiddle here and a diddle there and poof, you have the customized sound you want, you lock it in, then you plug and play from then on...unless you are like me and constantly diddling and twiddling just because you can.

[guitaniac]

Joe,

To my way of thinking, the onboard Aura is quite an achievement. The fact that it provides model-specific sound images makes it fairly fool-proof for those who demand simplicity (out of preference or necessity), but there's also some interesting "tweak factor" for those who choose to exploit it.

Gary

[rmyAddison]

"To plug into a PA, all you would need is a simple direct box, or a PADI or somthing to convert from instrument cable to XLR. No muss no fuss."

You do NOT need XLR to plug any instrument into a PA system, the Aura plugs in fine with the 1/4" instrument cable. XLR for instruments is only necessary if there is an interference problem or very long cable runs. In most "typical" setups all the mikes are XLR, and unless there is a problem the instruments line outs use standard jacks. You can use both 1/4" and XLR with instruments but XLR is not necessary.

[Joe F]

Originally Posted by rmyAddison

"To plug into a PA, all you would need is a simple direct box, or a PADI or somthing to convert from instrument cable to XLR. No muss no fuss."

You do NOT need XLR to plug any instrument into a PA system, the Aura plugs in fine with the 1/4" instrument cable. XLR for instruments is only necessary if there is an interference problem or very long cable runs. In most "typical" setups all the mikes are XLR, and unless there is a problem the instruments line outs use standard jacks. You can use both 1/4" and XLR with instruments but XLR is not necessary.

Agreed. 99% of the PA's I plug into have only a balanced XLR input through a snake or floor jack however, which requires a direct box. I know there are some small coffee house type portable PA's that are only 5-10 ft away from the player and have instrument inputs. You are correct. If the PA has a 1/4" input for your guitar channel, and you can reach it with an instrument cable, you're good to go. If it's at the back of the room and the only thing on stage are some XLR jacks in the floor or a snake box, a conversion to XLR is needed. With the ES, it is not needed. All that is needed is the TRS-XLR cable and you can plug the guitar straight into the XLR jack.

[rmyAddison]

Joe,

We're saying the same thing, I've played and done sound since the 70's. If the board is on/near stage and you can reach it with standard cables, hook up and take off, mikes excluded.

If you are using a snake then you have a long run (which I mentioned as an exception), and yes you use XLR to reduce signal loss and fight interference.

Obviously you have played some large rooms or venues/concerts, my old band had a 24x4/150' snake and we played some large venues back East, but folks playing coffehouses and small bars probably don't see them or need instrument XLR very often.

Appreciate your knowledge, nice to see some pros here.. plus we both play OMC Auras!!

[Joe F]

Originally Posted by rmyAddison

Joe,

We're saying the same thing, I've played and done sound since the 70's. If the board is on/near stage and you can reach it with standard cables, hook up and take off, mikes excluded.

If you are using a snake then you have a long run (which I mentioned as an exception), and yes you use XLR to reduce signal loss and fight interference.

Obviously you have played some large rooms or venues/concerts, my old band had a 24x4/150' snake and we played some large venues back East, but folks playing coffehouses and small bars probably don't see them or need instrument XLR very often.

Appreciate your knowledge, nice to see some pros here.. plus we both play OMC Auras!!

Yeah man. We're saying the same thing and playing the same guitar. If you are a middle aged dude with a beard, that could be very scary!

It's my bad. Whenever I hear the term "PA" I always think big long snakes and a some dudes in the back of the room making faces and hand signals at me. One time I did a gig in a state prison and the dudes in the back at the soundboard also had shotguns, but were still much too far away for my comfort. Talk about a long cable run!

I'm not sure what kind of "PA" venue the original poster was referring too, but I agree. We're both right. Well done my OMC Aura brother.

[sdelsolray]

Originally Posted by Slickstring

I am thinking of selling my Taylor 314-L2 with the ES and going with the Martin OMC-16RE Aura. I play in public alot and with the ES I can plug straight into the PA. Is this possible with the Aura? I don't want to make a mistake and trade out for something that will not suffice for public venues. The ES seems to be pretty simplified and easy to use. Just asking for opinions on these two from anyone who has done a comparison.

Thanks,
Jerry

Both amplification systems (ES and UST/Aura) can be used in virtually any live situation, subject to possible feedback issues in extremely loud situations. Both systems need to plug into something else before you will hear anything.

But each sounds different. I would think that a primary issue is how you like the sound of either, as that should be a very important factor. Stripped to their essence, here's what they are, along with their basic topology:

1) An ES is basically a Mag/SBT dual source, mixed to mono before gain and before eq control is available. The output signal is balanced near the low end of line level.

2) An Aura is basically a UST/mic dual source, which allows for separate gain and eq adjustment before blending to mono. It has a few other features (tuner, notch, compression, etc.). The output signal is unbalanced near the low end of line level.

You probably should decide whether you like a Mag/SBT and/or UST/mic sound in the first place. Keep in mind that these combinations are two of many different dual source combinations. Plus there are many many solutions (product-wise) for each combination. Players tend to prefer one or two over the others, and that is very player/venue specific.

Regardless of their brand names and respective marketing hyperbole, an ES is going to sound like a flavor of Mag/SBT and an Aura will sound like a flavor of UST/mic.

[Joe F]

Originally Posted by sdelsolray

Regardless of their brand names and respective marketing hyperbole, an ES is going to sound like a flavor of Mag/SBT and an Aura will sound like a flavor of UST/mic.

I will have to begrudgingly agree with that. As much as I like the Aura sound, with my eyes closed, I can still tell the difference between it and a mic'd guitar even though it claims to duplicate it. It's very very subtle, but it does retain the UST warp signature. If you've heard UST's all your life, you can recognize them even in disguise with perfume on. The Auraized sound is still a great sound though.

Also, as much as I like the sound of the new 07 ES, I can definitely tell that it's point of origination is magnetic. I also think the new ES-T, while sounding very good for a UST, still sounds like a UST.

A mic is a mic and a pickup is a pickup. It is what it is.

[sdelsolray]

Originally Posted by Joe F

I will have to begrudgingly agree with that. As much as I like the Aura sound, with my eyes closed, I can still tell the difference between it and a mic'd guitar even though it claims to duplicate it. It's very very subtle, but it does retain the UST warp signature. If you've heard UST's all your life, you can recognize them even in disguise with perfume on. The Auraized sound is still a great sound though.

Also, as much as I like the sound of the new 07 ES, I can definitely tell that it's point of origination is magnetic. I also think the new ES-T, while sounding very good for a UST, still sounds like a UST.

A mic is a mic and a pickup is a pickup. It is what it is.

The UST/mic (I think) was the first popular dual source system. And it can sound great for live situations. I think the thing that separates great dual source systems from mediocre ones is having the functionality, quality and ability to create a sound that is greater than the sum of its parts, whatever that means (but I think I know it when I hear it).

Functionality: At a minimum, a great dual source topology will have separate gain for each pickup (better if it also has a blend control, which is different than gain controls) and separate eq for each pickup before blending (parametric preferred). Taylor's ES has major design flaws in this regard. You can't adjust the relative volume of the separate sources (mag and SBT pair), you can't adjust the eq of either alone and the eq avaialble is paltry (though of nice quality). Give me a Sunrise, Rare Earth or Baggs M-1 (for the mag), and a K&K mini or PUTW #54 (for the SBT), along with a competent blender such as a Raven Labs PMB II, D-TAR Solistice or Rane AP-13. It will out perform an ES all day long, simply because of the functional topology. The Aura (floor model) has the ability to adjust these things before blending (but the quality suffers).

Quality: Quality counts, even if it is only incremental with each piece in a signal chain. As relates to acoustic guitar, the pickups are the pickups - they're as good as they get, although some are better than others. Most pres and eqs available are built to a budget price point, with all the attendant compromises, and they sound anywhere from cheesy to OK to good. There are certainly better products, but not as many use them (there are many decent pres/eqs in some acoustic guitar amps and some PA mixing boards). The ES might be considered a better product, at least as far as the preamp and eq goes. The Aura's pre, eq and other sonic features (e.g., compression, converters, etc.) are (IMHO) of the cheesy variety (the D-TAR Mama Bear outpaces the Aura in this area). I had hoped Fishman would upgrade the analog and digital circuity in the Aura, which would certainly improve the sound. Instead, Fishman has dumbed down the Aura to even lower price points. It would appear Fishman is more interested in making money than in making excellent gear.

Ability: This is the user's knowledge about and experience in using the particular gear they have. Many folks seem to have an aversion to learning about and working with their signal chain. A common statement is something like, "I want my amplified guitar to sound just like it does when I'm playing at home, but I don't want anything complicated, it can't be more than two pounds (and must fit in my guitar case) and it can't cost more than $100." A little elbow grease in this area will often improve the sound without getting new gear.

That all being said, gear takes a back seat to the performer and his musicianship, and most of all, to the music itself.