In search of Collings and Santa Cruz OMs...Maybe Taylor?

[tadol]

I’m a full-on Santa Cruz fan - they are extremely traditional in construction, using only a fully fitted dovetail for their neck joint, Collings and Taylor are bolted. Some people spend a lot of time worrying about possible neck sets, and love bolt-ons. I think bolts affect the tone of the instruments, in a brighter and edgier way that some people like.

If you’re considering a Santa Cruz, I’d play a few, and I’d look at their other models - Fs, Hs, even 000s - you’ll get a better sense of how some of these other styles feel and sound. And in your price range, you’ll need to look at used. But if you can, reach out to the shop and come up to Santa Cruz - Richard is starting to do shop tours on Fridays for small groups, when pre-scheduled, and they can really give you some insight into their build philosophy and techniques - and it’s really fun. Then, you can go over to Sylvan Music, who usually have a nice selection of Santa Cruz (and others) to try a few. If you have the time, there are a number of other shops around the bay area, and if you love guitars, a few days visiting these shops can be a great trip. It will definitely give you a chance to try a lot of different makers and models, and let you make your own decisions on what would be a great, hopefully lifetime, instrument -

PS - If you do come up here, you’ll find a number or people on the SC forum who would welcome you to try some different models!

[zmf]

Originally Posted by Guitar Chemist

I live in the southern california region and I will plan on traveling or doing a road trip to find my guitar.....

Welcome. Nice to hear that you're planning a road trip to try out guitars. Best way to get a feeling for what feels/sounds good to you. Youtube gets you just so far.

Plenty of good advice already. I'll just add that when you get to those guitar shops, be open to the unexpected. Try guitars that aren't on your radar.

In addition to the great shops mentioned, you might check with LA Guitar in your neighborhood -- but I suspect you already have. They may have some interesting custom guitars along with their regular inventory.

I'm a biased fan of Santa Cruz and Bourgeois guitars, but that's irrelevant to your search and what pleases you.

[Glennwillow]

Hi GC,

Welcome to the AGF and congratulations on completing your bachelor's degree and getting started on your PhD program. Best of luck with that.

If you can get to some good guitar shops (Sylvan Music in Santa Cruz and Gryphon in Palo Alto are both great shops and Larry at Organic Sounds in Orange County is also a great option), I would suggest your playing every OM guitar you can get your hands on. You never know what you will like until you play it. You might decide you like Martin best or Taylor or ???

I have a SCGC OM/PW which I enjoy and I also have a Collings OM1A. But I also play my Martin 000-28VS about as much. A good guitar is a good guitar. I think the name on the headstock is only marginally important.

Santa Cruz prices have gone up because they are making fewer guitars compared to Collings --> supply and demand. Santa Cruz guitars are very nice, but they have become quite expensive.

Best of luck completing your PhD. It's going to be a challenge, so hang in there!

- Glenn

[Guitar Chemist]

That is true...I have heard that NT bolt on necks are a lot easier and cheaper to reset than Dovetail. I think remember Richard Hoover in a video discuss why he still uses dovetail. What are your thoughts and preference?

[Guitar Chemist]

Originally Posted by tadol

I’m a full-on Santa Cruz fan - they are extremely traditional in construction, using only a fully fitted dovetail for their neck joint, Collings and Taylor are bolted. Some people spend a lot of time worrying about possible neck sets, and love bolt-ons. I think bolts affect the tone of the instruments, in a brighter and edgier way that some people like.

If you’re considering a Santa Cruz, I’d play a few, and I’d look at their other models - Fs, Hs, even 000s - you’ll get a better sense of how some of these other styles feel and sound. And in your price range, you’ll need to look at used. But if you can, reach out to the shop and come up to Santa Cruz - Richard is starting to do shop tours on Fridays for small groups, when pre-scheduled, and they can really give you some insight into their build philosophy and techniques - and it’s really fun. Then, you can go over to Sylvan Music, who usually have a nice selection of Santa Cruz (and others) to try a few. If you have the time, there are a number of other shops around the bay area, and if you love guitars, a few days visiting these shops can be a great trip. It will definitely give you a chance to try a lot of different makers and models, and let you make your own decisions on what would be a great, hopefully lifetime, instrument -

PS - If you do come up here, you’ll find a number or people on the SC forum who would welcome you to try some different models!

Thanks for the offer haha, appreciate that this forum is full of welcoming people! I will definitely try to schedule a tour of the shop when I can!

[Guitar Chemist]

Originally Posted by Glennwillow

Hi GC,

Welcome to the AGF and congratulations on completing your bachelor's degree and getting started on your PhD program. Best of luck with that.

If you can get to some good guitar shops (Sylvan Music in Santa Cruz and Gryphon in Palo Alto are both great shops and Larry at Organic Sounds in Orange County is also a great option), I would suggest your playing every OM guitar you can get your hands on. You never know what you will like until you play it. You might decide you like Martin best or Taylor or ???

I have a SCGC OM/PW which I enjoy and I also have a Collings OM1A. But I also play my Martin 000-28VS about as much. A good guitar is a good guitar. I think the name on the headstock is only marginally important.

Santa Cruz prices have gone up because they are making fewer guitars compared to Collings --> supply and demand. Santa Cruz guitars are very nice, but they have become quite expensive.

Best of luck completing your PhD. It's going to be a challenge, so hang in there!

- Glenn

Thanks alot for the advice appreciate it very much! Yes, I will definitely keep my options more open. When I narrowed down the brands, I did so just due to what I was hearing online and what some of the aesthetics of the guitars look like, but to me playability and sound is king.

[Guitar Chemist]

Originally Posted by J Patrick

…if I was in your shoes I’d seriously consider the Santa Cruz OM grand currently for sale on the classifieds here…it’s a terrific model…..Terry Barnes the seller is a stand up guy…he really knows guitars and always has the good stuff….just sayin…

I was thinking about looking for OM grands, however, my issue is that I am 5'8 and my reach and hand size is smaller than most. I currently own a Taylor 314ce (grand auditorium) and it is too large for my liking. I fear that the OM grand is around the same size. Thanks for the advice and heads up though. Appreciate it.

[Guitar Chemist]

Originally Posted by CopyCat

What fun!

Supplies are a bit low these days so it is hard to find that combo in So Cal. Maybe you can take a road trip to the Bay Area, with Gryphon and Sylvan and Tall Toad and others.

Pretty soon Organic Sounds will open in Orange County; Larry will be a Santa Cruz dealer I think.

I strongly prefer Collings/SCGC to Taylor, but that’s me.

Santa Cruz is a smaller shop than Collings and the cost of living is very high (though Austin has apparently shot up).

Like you I’d be leaning toward Collings. They’re consistent and built with incredible attention to detail. Collings are typically not flashy, so the subtleties take a little time to reveal themselves.

I generally prefer the traditional series, but you might not. You could probably find a used one in your budget.

Happy hunting!

Yeah, me too! I just keep Taylor guitars in the back of my head because I am from San Diego CA, so I do take pride in local companies especially when the head honcho Bob and Andy are from around here too. Of course, it is just a tiny factor in my search for the right instrument. Thanks for the advice!

[zmf]

Originally Posted by Guitar Chemist

That is true...I have heard that NT bolt on necks are a lot easier and cheaper to reset than Dovetail. I think remember Richard Hoover in a video discuss why he still uses dovetail. What are your thoughts and preference?

Don't let this enter into your selection in terms of tone, but cost of reset could be a factor -- if you want to worry about what might happen way down the road.

I have to admit that I have a Santa Cruz that feels so "organic" that I sometimes catch myself wondering about the value of dovetails -- then I slap myself and get a grip. I have three other guitars -- all different brands -- that are bolt on and sound great.

[Guitar Chemist]

Maybe you can help actually.

In your experience, which one between Collings and SCGC, is better for smaller hands. I know they both have very different neck profiles but I still am not able to try any.
Thanks in advance!

[CopyCat]

I think it’s a myth about less expense to reset bolt-on necks, at least with Collings. If I recall correctly Brian Kimsey did a video explaining the process and why that’s so.

With either Collings or SCGC that is so far into the future it’s not worth worrying about. They are lifetime-quality guitars.

As for small hands, only you can decide what neck profile and nut width are comfortable. By playing them yourself.

McCabe’s in Santa Monica has been low on Collings but is a dealer. They also have some Bourgeois guitars in stock and often have nice used gear, so you can at least try some different models there.

[rpatkin]

OK, ‘bout everyone here has or will recommend Collings or SCG, so let me be a devil’s advocate. I have and love a Collings 01T, and in the past have had Gurians, Guilds, Taylors and Eastmans. I currently also have a Taylor 712 12 fret, near OM sized, and I have to say it is as fine sounding and playing of an instrument as the small bench makers offerings. And price is nice (at least at this level)

[Graylocks]

Originally Posted by Guitar Chemist

Maybe you can help actually.

In your experience, which one between Collings and SCGC, is better for smaller hands. I know they both have very different neck profiles but I still am not able to try any.
Thanks in advance!

not quite that simple. neither maker has the exact same neck on every guitar model. you need to determine what profile and size work best for you. My collings OM2HT has Collings traditional neck and that has been the holy grail for my hand. I customed ordered a Santa Cruz OM Grand with a slimmer neck profile than standard on an OM Grand and a 1 11/16 neck. it's better for me than my first OMG but not as good a fit as my Collings.

[joeld]

My SC does of course have a dovetail neck. It's really great, so I think dovetails are better. My other two acoustics have bolt-on necks, and they are really great, so I think bolt-on's are better. I can say that my SC is 26 years old, very light, and the neck has not moved. My bolt-on guitars are noticeably heavier, to which I think the neck joint contributes some small amount.

Lots (sort of all) SC's are custom orders, so the neck will vary. At your price range, you'd be looking at used instruments so you'll have to pay attention. I just looked at the SCGC web page and they say that V-shaped neck is standard for OMs these days, but I think the OMs that I have played have had a C-shaped neck. My 000 has the V-shaped neck, in fact 1-13/16, which is pretty common for this style instrument. My 0000, a Schoenberg Quartet, has a 1-13/16 C-shaped neck which actually feels bigger to me for some reason.

I'm about the same size as you, also with smaller hands, and I don't find it to be to bulky at all. I can thumb the 6th string easily for example. Personally I like the V-neck very much and if I were to order a custom guitar, it would have exactly the same neck as my 000. Personally, I don't find the OMG & 0000 body sizes to feel too big. I'm sure if you're looking at guitars in this range, you're experienced enough to know what you like. Of course, Taylors are known for offering slimmer necks.

If you do come up here, you're welcome to spend the night at my house and save yourself a few $$. I'm located (somewhat long) walking distance to both Sylvan and the SCGC shop, and a bit farther from the beach. Cheers!/jd

[ScottSD]

Hi, welcome to the forum. If you're still in/around San Diego, Moze Guitars in La Mesa has a '91 Santa Cruze H115 in their shop. It's also listed on their website. I've looked at it, cosmetically, it has been played hard but it's all there setup/sound wise.

Congrats on the the doctorate program!

Scott