Mahogany vs Sapele vs Cocobolo real life stories

[Jimpalereason]

Can anyone give me the low down on the difference between Cocobolo, Mahogany, and sapele back and sides. This will be for a rockbridge SJ with Red Spruce top.

All the info out there seems to reference other woods or vague terms that are hard to translate in to a real world application. I would love to hear from folks who have experience with both and which applications they shine and which they don’t.

Play style is mostly strumming classic rock style with some single note lines when playing with a friend. Almost always with a pick.

Any advice is great appreciated.

[Mikecraig1]

OK, the simple lowdown - without terms like "warmer" or "focused." Mahogany doesn't produce harmonic overtones at the level of rosewood/cocobolo type guitars. In other words, you tend to hear more of just the notes you play and not so much of *other* frequencies activated by the simple act of making the top vibrate by strumming or plucking strings. This is considered an advantage in solos executed in group playing or when recording so that individual notes are clearly heard. You'll hear people referring to this as "cutting through the mix." Conversely, rosewood tends to pick up a lot of harmonic frequencies other than those specifically produced by fretted notes, and this quality is preferred by some performers of specific styles/genres, e.g. solo fingerstyle or Bluegrass rhythm. In spite of these alleged qualities, personal preference should always dictate how the harmonic qualities described here may be exploited to produce the music you want to express.

[kmtyb]

I have all 3 with different builders.

Cocobolo Taylor 816
Mahogany Martin D42
Sapele SCGC D

All three guitars are keepers and very different. I think the builder is more important then the side and back woods. It your choice is from one builder, I will most likely chose Cocobolo. The extra shimmer that rosewood provides for strumming can make a difference if you like to strum.

[zoopeda]

Cocobolo is way denser/heavier than the other two. The best thing you can do is have a long conversation with the builder about what you want and go with that. Polling the audience here will not be as helpful as insights from your specific builder.

[Brucebubs]

This old Reverb listing certainly raves about this Rockbridge SJ with Red Spruce top and Cocobolo back & sides.

https://reverb.com/item/2219936-rock...-dave-matthews

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by Jimpalereason

Can anyone give me the low down on the difference between Cocobolo, Mahogany, and sapele back and sides. This will be for a rockbridge SJ with Red Spruce top.

All the info out there seems to reference other woods or vague terms that are hard to translate in to a real world application. I would love to hear from folks who have experience with both and which applications they shine and which they don’t.

Play style is mostly strumming classic rock style with some single note lines when playing with a friend. Almost always with a pick.

Any advice is great appreciated.

Of those three choices without question I prefer the tone (and looks) of Cocobolo. I also generally like regular Indian rosewood.

[biotechmgr]

Taylor's Wood and Steel magazine
Vol 102 Issue 1 contains detailed info on tonewoods. Highly recommended.

[min7b5]

Originally Posted by Mikecraig1

OK, the simple lowdown - without terms like "warmer" or "focused." Mahogany doesn't produce harmonic overtones at the level of rosewood/cocobolo type guitars. In other words, you tend to hear more of just the notes you play and not so much of *other* frequencies activated by the simple act of making the top vibrate by strumming or plucking strings..

Well said

[The Bard Rocks]

Some manufacturers use Mahogany and Sapele interchangeably. Sapele seems to have figure more consistently, but that's looks.

Cocobolo is different. It is a true rosewood and will sound that way. Usually quite beautiful, it often comes with an enhanced price tag. And it will be heavier with a different sound.

So, soundwise, there are really 2 basic choices. The decision should be between you and your builder and come after a discussion that gives the builder an expectation of what you are looking for, how you intend to use it, and what your musical style is.

[jaymarsch]

Originally Posted by The Bard Rocks

Some manufacturers use Mahogany and Sapele interchangeably. Sapele seems to have figure more consistently, but that's looks.



Cocobolo is different. It is a true rosewood and will sound that way. Usually quite beautiful, it often comes with an enhanced price tag. And it will be heavier with a different sound.



So, soundwise, there are really 2 basic choices. The decision should be between you and your builder and come after a discussion that gives the builder an expectation of what you are looking for, how you intend to use it, and what your musical style is.

I agree with The Bard here. Have a discussion with the luthier about the tone that you are looking for. Let he/she/them listen to you play, if possible, and the decision will become clearer to you. Choosing tone woods for a guitar is a great dilemma to have. :-)
Best,
Jayne

[mcduffnw]

Originally Posted by zoopeda

Cocobolo is way denser/heavier than the other two. The best thing you can do is have a long conversation with the builder about what you want and go with that. Polling the audience here will not be as helpful as insights from your specific builder.

THIS^^^

Talk with the great folks at Rockbridge and go with what they suggest. One very important point is that they know their wood inventory, and what they have been getting out of it tonally with their various body shapes and sizes, and wood combos...top/back and sides...so they can give you a very accurate assessment of what sound you can expect depending on the wood choice.

We here on the AGF can speculate about what will wood and wood combo will sound like what...but Rockbridge knows their wood and what it will sound like. Get your info from the very best source...the folks what will use their wood to build your guitar!!!


duff
Be A Player...Not A Polisher

[tadol]

A couple of generalities - (good) adirondack gives a tight, focused response, with good note separation and clarity, as opposed to a more blended sound that you generally get from say, sitka. It can take some time for adi to really open up, but you’ll get a lot of it right away. Mahogany has a more fundamental and warmer response, and pairs very nicely with adi - Cocobolo has a great deal of clarity and brightness, and when paired with adi, it can create a real hot-rod of an instrument, which can be challenging for a rhythm strummer, but in the hands of a talented fingerstyle or flatpicker, is incredibly dynamic. Sapele lies somewhere in between, and is quite dependent on how the builder chooses to use it.

You should play examples of these, even by other builders, to get a better sense of how these woods sound with the way you like to play. While it’s true that the builder has a lot to do with the final sound, no builder can make mahogany sound like cocobolo, or vice-versa. Once you have a better idea of how they sound generally, you’ll be in a much better place to talk to your builder about what you hear, and what you like or don’t like about each, and what they can do to meet your goals. Good luck!

[MBee]

I have a red spruce/sapele slope shoulder. I find this guitar loud and bright rather than warm. Fewer overtones, than a walnut/sitka SS that I tried, but incredible sustain. And way louder (i.e., more headroom and more volume from a similar touch).

[Boozehound]

I own one Cocobolo guitar, and have played a handful. I find Cocobolo to be loud, with a lot of overtone content and sustain. I prefer it for fingerstyle, but less so for strumming. On a strumming guitar I find Cocobolo can sound very impressive initially, but can deliver 'too much' sustain at times and sound a bit harsh and muddy.

If I was investing in a high dollar custom guitar I would personally choose Mahogany, but that's because it's my favorite tonewood, but your mileage may vary. I'd be careful with Cocobolo unless the builder really recommended it for my style of playing and my tonal preferences.

[TBman]

The one thing I have learned about tone woods is that the builder makes the largest difference.

I have 3 spruce/mahogany guitars, a Gibson J-45, a Larrivee OM-05 and a Martin D-16GT and they all sound very different.

That said, cocobolo looks really nice.