#16
|
|||
|
|||
Many have already weighed in on the growth causes of narrow and wider grains, so that is covered. My observation and opinion is strictly from having many examples of both over the years. Narrow grain tops in general give me more of what I’m looking for in top response and that is my main criteria.
I spoke to a Breedlove dealer who said Kim Breedlove told him that he (Kim) prefers wider grain tops and considers them to be superior. I have no way to know if this is an accurate statement, but I have my doubts that KB would have said that for a lot of reasons. |
#17
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
I have two solo-built spruce topped guitars, one Italian Spruce with tight grain and the other Sitka with medium wide grain. The Sitka top was built in 2003 and the Italian Spruce top in 2005. They are both solo-built guitars and though very different in character (OM and Mini-Jumbo with 16" lower bout), they both sound amazing. I'd say the builder who voiced the guitar is equally important to the sound with either wide or narrow grained Spruce. I also have a Voyage-Air (factory built) solid spruce top with fairly narrow and uniform grain, and it sounds amazing as well! It's over 10 years old. |
#18
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
There are many variable that go to make up tonal quality not least the builders/makers/assemblers, tonewood, design and finishing, but I was simply asking this one aspect.
__________________
Silly Moustache, Just an old Limey acoustic guitarist, Dobrolist, mandolier and singer. I'm here to try to help and advise and I offer one to one lessons/meetings/mentoring via Zoom! |
#19
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
Cosmetically, I'm not at all concerned about grain being tight, wide, or mixed on the same top. So far as tops are concerned, the only thing I don't care for is run out, but that's strictly an aesthetic preference that has nothing to do with tone.
__________________
Jim 2023 Iris ND-200 maple/adi 2017 Circle Strings 00 bastogne walnut/sinker redwood 2015 Circle Strings Parlor shedua/western red cedar 2009 Bamburg JSB Signature Baritone macassar ebony/carpathian spruce 2004 Taylor XXX-RS indian rosewood/sitka spruce 1988 Martin D-16 mahogany/sitka spruce along with some electrics, zouks, dulcimers, and banjos. YouTube |
#20
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
That's just me, however? I also like bear claw.
__________________
1 dreadnought, 1 auditorium, 1 concert, and 2 travel guitars. |
#21
|
|||
|
|||
You're so 1965.
__________________
McCollum Grand Auditorum Euro Spruce/Brazilian PRS Hollowbody Spruce PRS SC58 Giffin Vikta Gibson Custom Shop ES 335 '59 Historic RI ‘91 Les Paul Standard ‘52 AVRI Tele - Richie Baxt build Fender American Deluxe Tele Fender Fat Strat |
#22
|
||||
|
||||
Also curious about the significance of grain width. I look, for example, at this adirondack top from my Kopp: extremely narrow in the middle, wider towards the edges, silking in some sections, and I wonder about the extremes of weather and conditions that this tree experienced during its life.
|
#23
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
__________________
2004 McCollum GA redwood/walnut, 2011 Lame Horse Gitjo, 2019 Pono 0-10V Engleman/Acadia, 2019 RainSong V-DR1100N2, 1925 Weissenborn Style 4 Good Guys: Howlin Bob,skiproberts,Dustinfurlow, jherr, sevenpalms, Methos1979, Flat Top, bgpicker, Luria, TobyWalker, JerryM,jonfields45,eljay,buddyhu,funky2x |
#24
|
|||
|
|||
There is not absolute correlation. It is more up to the specific tree and piece.
I actually had two Adirondack guitars on had- one has the finest grain that I know of. It is a famous 'Smokies' top with something like 40 lines per inch. Another is 1/4" per grain line at the widest - that is amazingly wide. Both were truly excellent instruments. That really wide one was one of the most musical guitars I ever played in terms of dynamics - it was so incredibly linear in the volume to input that everything just sounded more musical. There are some pros who want only really wide grain. And then there are some who want really fine grained. If you talk to really good luthiers and wood suppliers, I think you will find most confirming that the grain line per inch does not tell you about the quality of the tone. |
#25
|
|||
|
|||
One of the theories of why stradivarious violins sounds so good is because of the very slow grown wood used as a result of a "small ice age" europe experienced some years before.
The same idea seems to be very deeply rooted among guitarbuilders. |
#26
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
Hi KWSog Some of the grain width and silking in that top can be attributed to environmental/climate conditions and issues that particular tree faced in it's life. But some of that could/can also be due to how that top set was cut off of the billet it came out of, and even how the billet was cut or cleaved out of a larger round...having to due with angles and degrees of angles cuts were made at. But really...who cares...{;-)...when you have such a gorgeous sunburst top to look at, and such a great sounding guitar to play, as the Kopp no doubt is! duff Be A Player...Not A Polisher |
#27
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
|
#28
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
|
#29
|
|||
|
|||
I exchanged a Taylor 717 BE for a Taylor 717 BE WHB, because the WHB sounded so much better.
When I asked the guitar tech how they could sound so different, he pointed out that the grain was wider in the 717 I returned, and he had always heard that tighter grain was better for sound. Just what I heard...
__________________
2023 Martin HD-28 2022 USA Made Casino 2021 ES-335 2020 American Professional Tele Butterscotch 2020 American Professional Tele Strat Black 2019 GS Mini Bass 2015 Taylor 322 2015 Blackbird Rider 1999 Gretsch Short Scale Bass 1995 Fender Tele |
#30
|
||||
|
||||
I meant to reply to this thread sooner, but got distracted. As others mentioned, grain width doesn't necessarily translate to sounding "better" or "worse." Narrow grain may result in a stiffer top, but it still comes down to how that top is voiced, thickness, type of bracing, etc. Lots of factors can influence the final product.
Red Spruce (which isn't just grown in the Adirondack Mountains) was largely harvested prior to WWII, and the replacement growth has just become big enough to support guitar production in recent years. Many of those trees have wider rings (or varying wide and narrow) b/c they had more light exposure than the old growth Red Spruce trees did many years ago. Sitka Spruce is fairly plentiful in the NW, and many of those harvested trees are 300-500yo with vary narrow growth rings. As for the color, it can vary by species. It's been my experience that Red Spruce (Adirondack) may begin paler in color, but then transition into a yellow to gold color over time (depending on exposure to light). Englemann Spruce and some European/Alpine Spruce species can have a similar color path. Meanwhile, Sitka can begin a little darker and take on a little more orange-brown (pumpkin) tone as it ages. There's no way to speed up this darkening process, outside of increasing the guitar's exposure to light.
__________________
"It's only castles burning." - Neil Young |