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  #16  
Old 01-10-2021, 11:40 AM
Recoil Rob Recoil Rob is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl49 View Post

A custom has a 4-5 month build time and is not returnable, but if you buy something from stock it is usually in your hand 7-10 days later. [Looking just now the only X20's in stock have woody veneers - no plain CF weave tops. I have no idea when a plain X20 will be back in stock].
"The X20 Artisan is built to order and generally has a five-month lead time. "
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  #17  
Old 01-10-2021, 01:04 PM
AZLiberty AZLiberty is offline
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Originally Posted by mot View Post
Rainsong lineup is what you should probably look at if you want a traditional sound hole and truss rod. Several of those should fit the bill. If you are more interested in an O-18 size axe and can forgo the truss rod, you might consider a blackbird Lucky 13 if you can find one used. They don't come up too often.
Lucky 13 is closer to a 00 than an 0.

Rainsong's "Parlor" on the other hand can trade cases with my Larrivee O-01

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  #18  
Old 01-10-2021, 01:09 PM
mot mot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl49 View Post
A custom has a 4-5 month build time and is not returnable, but if you buy something from stock it is usually in your hand 7-10 days later. [Looking just now the only X20's in stock have woody veneers - no plain CF weave tops. I have no idea when a plain X20 will be back in stock].
But there is a ready-to-ship X30 sitting in Donegal standing by to head your way that's under the $2500 cap. I posted the direct link earlier.

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Originally Posted by AZLiberty View Post
Lucky 13 is closer to a 00 than an 0.
Yes, but it's in the ball park and a superb instrument (at least my late 2014 one is).
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  #19  
Old 01-10-2021, 01:10 PM
AZLiberty AZLiberty is offline
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YouTube sound is... well YouTube sound.

Soundcloud isn't much better, but I do have a sound clip of a Rainsong Shorty, Larrivee OM-03R, and OM-03 all recorded at the same time, with the same equipment:

https://soundcloud.com/rocket_song/3...-sound-samples

This was a while ago, and I don't know/remember which strings were on each guitar at the time.
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  #20  
Old 01-10-2021, 01:23 PM
Recoil Rob Recoil Rob is offline
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Those Lucky 13's look perfect, did they have a truss rod?

Gotta wonder why a company would hit it out of the park with a model and then discontinue it...
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  #21  
Old 01-10-2021, 01:49 PM
AZLiberty AZLiberty is offline
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Originally Posted by Recoil Rob View Post
Those Lucky 13's look perfect, did they have a truss rod?

Gotta wonder why a company would hit it out of the park with a model and then discontinue it...
I was under the impression that they have discontinued all CF instruments and are only working with eKoa now.
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  #22  
Old 01-10-2021, 02:09 PM
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steelvibe steelvibe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Recoil Rob View Post
Those Lucky 13's look perfect, did they have a truss rod?

Gotta wonder why a company would hit it out of the park with a model and then discontinue it...
Didn't sell enough and/or felt that carbon fiber guitars was an already saturated market? But they are cool looking and great sounding guitars. There was a point where I was deciding between a Lucky 13 and RainSong Shorty and ended up with the Shorty.
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  #23  
Old 01-10-2021, 04:28 PM
Earl49 Earl49 is offline
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Originally Posted by Recoil Rob View Post
Those Lucky 13's look perfect, did they have a truss rod?...
Lucky 13 does not have a truss rod. When mine was built, I told Joe (Blackbird's owner) to add a little extra bracing in the neck as it would wear medium gauge strings all the time. He said, "I could do that, but it really isn't necessary" and that has proven true. Lucky 13 is a nice design with a distinctive voice.

I believe that they have an exclusive deal on the ekoa linen composite material and decided to build on that exclusivity, rather than competing head-to-head in the increasingly crowded carbon fiber instrument market. Ekoa is probably a little less toxic linen fiber that is easier to work with. If you've ever handled fiberglass then you know what a messy and itchy proposition that can be.

IMO they really should use the existing molds to produce a Lucky 13 model in ekoa - that would likely be a good seller for them. They came out with El Capitan in a GA size, and then later the Savoy in parlor size. When those models proved successful they soon abandoned carbon fiber entirely. Blackbird and Rainsong are both roughly ten person companies and do not have unlimited R&D budgets to make dozens of SKU's.
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  #24  
Old 01-10-2021, 04:34 PM
Earl49 Earl49 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Recoil Rob View Post
"The X20 Artisan is built to order and generally has a five-month lead time. "
That is probably artifact text from the old Artist and Opus model days. The Opus was a stripped down version of each model with limited options. Artisan was an upgrade with all glossy finish and electronics options. Ultimately 95% of their orders were Artisans with custom options, so they eventually dropped the Opus version.

At least a few Artisan versions are kept in stock (in normal times) but it is true that any customization puts your order into a 4-5 month queue.
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  #25  
Old 01-10-2021, 08:14 PM
Frettingflyer Frettingflyer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl49 View Post
Lucky 13 does not have a truss rod. When mine was built, I told Joe (Blackbird's owner) to add a little extra bracing in the neck as it would wear medium gauge strings all the time. He said, "I could do that, but it really isn't necessary" and that has proven true. Lucky 13 is a nice design with a distinctive voice.

I believe that they have an exclusive deal on the ekoa linen composite material and decided to build on that exclusivity, rather than competing head-to-head in the increasingly crowded carbon fiber instrument market. Ekoa is probably a little less toxic linen fiber that is easier to work with. If you've ever handled fiberglass then you know what a messy and itchy proposition that can be.

IMO they really should use the existing molds to produce a Lucky 13 model in ekoa - that would likely be a good seller for them. They came out with El Capitan in a GA size, and then later the Savoy in parlor size. When those models proved successful they soon abandoned carbon fiber entirely. Blackbird and Rainsong are both roughly ten person companies and do not have unlimited R&D budgets to make dozens of SKU's.
I visited the factory while they were still doing both, and I seem to remember Joe saying that the environmental regulations in California for working with CF might have been a bit troublesome, IIRC.
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  #26  
Old 01-11-2021, 08:25 AM
Earl49 Earl49 is offline
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I had not heard that before Dave, but it is sure believable. I'm pretty sure that Joe currently has to send out the guitars for final clear coat / finishing off site due to local environmental regs.

I would still like to someday see a Lucky 13 done in ekoa. El Capitan was very nice but essentially duplicated my Taylor GA's - and has a kinda funky slotted headstock that might not appeal to everyone. Savoy just did not feel right in my arms (too small??) and also did not appeal to me visually - something about the proportions. An ekoa 00 size in a more traditional form factor like a Lucky 13 might be a real winner for them.

Last edited by Earl49; 01-11-2021 at 08:51 AM. Reason: tpyo fixxed
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  #27  
Old 01-11-2021, 07:14 PM
futboljim futboljim is offline
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RR - I enjoy my Rainsong APLE a great deal, and if you can find one of those used, it might just fit the bill.

That said, I also greatly enjoy my X20. The X20 stays at home, and the APLE at the lake. I have leaned to more carbon fiber because of what you mention - low humidity in the winter, and I can just leave them out, ready to play.
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  #28  
Old 01-12-2021, 11:12 AM
EvanB EvanB is offline
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My wrong: 12 frets would be about right.
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  #29  
Old 01-12-2021, 02:13 PM
Recoil Rob Recoil Rob is offline
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OP here.
After much research and weighing my options I just ordered a Rainsong CO-1000NS.

It ticked all my original boxes, 100% CF, traditional sound hole, truss rod, I found a good price on a new one so I'll have a warranty and it will be here by the weekend.

I have to say that an Emerald was seriously in the running, I think they are beautifully made, price was about the same, and, as I said, it was the most contemporary of the contemporary guitars.

Not having a US dealer for warranty issues bothered me but not enough to not pull the trigger. In the end it was the 4+ month wait, I really want it for this time while I'm home waiting for a vaccine.

Thanks to all who ventured an opinion, gave advice and suggestions, you opened my eyes and help me make an informed decision.

Maybe when it's safe to meet people again I'll see if I can find an Emerald owner near me and go take a look.


thanks,

Rob
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  #30  
Old 01-12-2021, 02:28 PM
mot mot is offline
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I think you will find this a wonderful guitar. To my ear the Rainsongs are pretty awesome and have a very crisp and clear sound. I diddled between them and Blackbird for a while before I finally settled on Blackbird. I probably would have gone with the Rainsong then except that I already had an X20. The Rainsong was somewhere between the X20 and the Lucky13 in my estimate which helped to push me toward the Lucky.

Remember, this is a gateway guitar. You are likely to get another (maybe by waiting 4 months) once you have had some time with your new toy. Look forward to your thoughts and congratulations!
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