Martin Counterpunches

[Rev Roy]

Originally Posted by rokdog49

Taylor never specifically went at Martin, they just touted a modification on their own products. Personally, I found the way Martin did this distasteful.
My former employer did the same thing Taylor did only with a different product in a different industry. Our improvements were proven to add value.
Not once did we ever denigrate the competition even when they attempted to copy us with a "smoke and mirrors" product improvement campaign. We we were held in high regard because of it and our customers actually thought the competition was acting childish. It made them even more loyal to us.
The other guys are a much larger company than us as well. We took the high road and I'm glad we did.
To each his own.

Completely agree, Jamie.

[Gjimmy]

Can’t wait to try one of these d-18’s! Sounds pretty cool and definitely worth checking out.

[ii Cybershot ii]

No cutaway, no care

[Pura Vida]

Yep, Jamie. Someone once said, when you base your argument on what the other guy is doing, you've already lost.

[Denny B]

Originally Posted by MChild62

The D18 Modern Deluxe is priced at $4,400 on the Martin site. Can any estimate the likely street price? And how soon will these models be available in shops to try in person?

With a list price of $4399, and a MSRP of $3399, you should be able to get one for somewhere about $2639 from one of our AGF sponsors...

[Rip VanWinkle]

Jaime et all...you are technically correct....Taylor didn't go after Martin specifically....they went after all x-braced guitars; Martin, Collings, Santa Cruz etc. I found the Taylor campaign really troubling.... it actually made me feel bad that I own and "had" enjoyed my five Taylors. The important thing about this announcement is that x-braced guitars from Martin are still available. The "Re-imagined "series has been upgraded but not at the expense of the older guitars They are not now being roundly dismissed as old and inferior technology. I think Indy has it right. Martin is competing with old Martins. Bob Taylor showed me something very distasteful... he is trying to make his guitars "obsolete" to force customers to buy the "latest and greatest". He really hates his old guitars.

[SprintBob]

Originally Posted by Rip VanWinkle

Bob Taylor showed me something very distasteful... he is trying to make his guitars "obsolete" to force customers to buy the "latest and greatest". He really hates his old guitars.

With all respect, I think you should read Bob Taylor's comments in the last Wood and Steel about the comparison between their previous X-braced models and their new V-braced models. I don't believe he is nefarious as you make him out to be.

To everyone, please keep it respectful and objective with no brand bashing. Some of the posts in this thread are skirting the edge.

[DownUpDave]

Originally Posted by rokdog49

The 2018 is the "Re-imagined version" of the D18.
Martin started building them in 2012.

I do know the Re-imagined D-18 was out in 2012, I was just trying to be cute, obvious fail

I love the current Martin sound and if they are improving it, even a little, I'm all for that. I look forward to playing one

[Ovation1]

Originally Posted by Groberts

Is it me, or does that sound like a knock on Taylors "V Bracing" (Moving a couple sticks around ) LOL

Lets go back to what Bob Taylor said:

“We’re still improving the guitar today – we’re leaving the X brace behind and now have interiors that make a better guitar – more projection, more in tune, the harmonies are beautiful, louder, more sustain..”

[ahorsewithnonam]

Originally Posted by IndyHD28

Boy, pretty jaded group here. I applaud Martin for working to improve the guitar, not just copy what they made in the 1930s. In lutherie, it’s the little things that add up and there’s a lot here especially considering they don’t dare foul up the famed Martin Tone.

I say, Bravo Martin.

And as far as Fred’s jab at V-bracing, I’d cut him some slack. He’s been hearing how great it is for a year with tremendous pressure to respond. And frankly, I don’t mind a little public jousting. Camaro vs Mustang. American made titans duking it out. Just like performance cars, I think we are entering a new golden age of guitar innovation and performance that will be looked back on fondly. If they egg each other on, more the better.

I agree. Subtle changes to improve tone and reliability. How great is that!

Martin makes wonderful guitars. They don’t need to start over with some completely new bracing system that is now their new standard leaving all their previous customers holding the bag. And I agree, Taylor moved a couple of sticks around.

[Wade Hampton]

Maybe I'm a slow-witted outlier who lacks any deep insights on this, but when I read the article I didn't interpret the "moving a couple of sticks around and calling it innovation" comment as ANY kind of attack on Taylor or any other guitar company, much less a specific attack on Taylor's V bracing. I took it as a general comment, nothing more. From what I can tell, you all are reading more into that than was intended.

Vicarious outrage and indignation are easy to embrace, of course, but I don't see anything to get wound up about here. Seems like kind of a waste of energy and emotion to me.

The Martin Modern Deluxe guitars sound like they have an interesting combination of features. I look forward to getting a chance to play a few of them.


Wade Hampton Miller

[noledog]

Originally Posted by Wade Hampton

Maybe I'm a slow-witted outlier who lacks any deep insights on this, but when I read the article I didn't interpret the "moving a couple of sticks around and calling it innovation" comment as ANY kind of attack on Taylor or any other guitar company, much less a specific attack on Taylor's V bracing. I took it as a general comment, nothing more. From what I can tell, you all are reading more into that than was intended.

Vicarious outrage and indignation are easy to embrace, of course, but I don't see anything to get wound up about here. Seems like kind of a waste of energy and emotion to me.

The Martin Modern Deluxe guitars sound like they have an interesting combination of features. I look forward to getting a chance to play a few of them.


Wade Hampton Miller

+1...Thank you Wade for your common sense, chilled observation, I totally agree. No need for the overly sensitive, uptight negativity. ...so while Francis needs to lighten up I too look forward to demoing one of these, sure look purty!

eric

[Rip VanWinkle]

SprintBob, I took your advice and re-read the Q&A in the last Wood and Steel. I should say that, obviously, I have no idea how Bob Taylor "feels" about his older designs. My comment was certainly a wild grenade and I apologize. His answer in "Wood and Steel" was much more nuanced. I can only wish that was the company line at the beginning of the new V-Class marketing push. But I realize with my advancing years that my opinion on anything is not unique. If I feel a certain way about something, it's likely that hundreds of people probably feel the same way whether they voice their opinion or not. Therefore, I suspect, that "how to walk back" the most exuberant language about V-Class has probably been discussed inside the executive building in El Cajon. And it should IMHO. I don't enjoy felling a little bit betrayed and, for the record, I still have my Taylors and they are not leaving because I like them better than the V-Class models. But as Bob says..."Time will tell..."
There should be no argument that Bob Taylor has done great work on tonewood sustainability from Africa to Hawaii and deserves a great deal of credit for his efforts.

[alnico5]

What can really be done to an acoustic guitar to make a drastic difference?

[RussL30]

It’s cool that Martin is making some innovations. That said, I don’t understand why this thread was created stating this as a “counterpunch” and competition between Taylor and Martin. Stuff like that creates brand wars and defensiveness.

They’re both great companies and neither company has left their customers high and dry.