Jazz Losing Ground in the U.S.

[EoE]

some good news for some here acoustic music is on the rise and booking agents and promoters are projecting a huge rise in live acoustic music of all styles.

[kkfan]

Originally Posted by EoE

some good news for some here acoustic music is on the rise and booking agents and promoters are projecting a huge rise in live acoustic music of all styles.

Good news, indeed!

[tabl10s]

Originally Posted by posternutbag

Maybe. I think it also represents the slow demise of so-called "Smooth Jazz." Except in small quantities, Jazz has not been commercially relevant since the decline of Swing sixty years ago.

The sales numbers for jazz have been propped up for decades first by Jazz Fusion in the 1970s and then by its even more tepid stepchild "Smooth Jazz." As AM/FM radio continues to loose traction as a viable medium, commercially viable Smooth Jazz artists will continue to loose traction in the marketplace.

When I was a child, I remember Kenny G and Earl Klugh were played in virtually every office, but that "audience" has been dwindling for ten years or more.

I don't know that that is a bad thing, because that wasn't really an audience. It was background music. Jazz is, and always will be a niche market. Those of us who love Jazz will always love it. Until recently, I had not bought a Jazz record in five years. I bought all of the "classics," and then I stopped. Online forums like this one opened my eyes to Jazz guitar, and I began buying Wes Montgomery, Joe Pass, Al Di Meola, Ed Bikert and Lenny Breau. Now I look to guitarists like Charlie Hunter, Bryan Baker and Julian Lage.

Record sales are meaningless. Internet and satellite radio will be were Jazz thrives. I think it is the responsibility of those of us who love Jazz to continue to look for and promote artists we see and hear that move us.

Jazz players have no one to blame but themselves. Unless one is doped-up/inbreiated, why would anyone listen to atonal music? I'm an audiophile and once heard a Kenny Rollins album on a $20k turntable. During the selection, he vibrated a note for about 15 seconds.
Technically "10" . Musically "-0"!

Organ is boring along with Vibes.

[kkfan]

Here's Kenny Barron's take on the state of jazz today:

[jcarlos]

Welp, hi there...I'm part of the current young generation you speak of. Im in my 20's and I've traveled for the past 5-6 years with 2 bands that I was part of, played festivals, bars, coffee houses, etc. And I can tell you from what I've seen, that "smooth jazz" is dead from a performing standpoint. Yes some people play it at home or to challenge themselves, but I rarely saw anyone play "smooth jazz" on stage. Its just down right boring and not very captivating to watch or to even listen to. In certain instances I will choose dubstep over "smooth jazz".

If we start talking about bebop jazz, new orleans jazz, swing jazz, gypsy jazz, funk jazz, acid jazz, those are still alive and well and can be exciting when a full band is performing them. Its still rare to go to a show and see a good performance of those styles but they do exists and those styles are mixed into a lot of other genres so they aren't going anywhere. Even if the title of those genres changed or gets absorbed by another title, the influence will still be there. I lean more towards latin gypsy jazz more than anything and I can tell you its not dead at all.

A couple nights ago I saw an acoustic folk performer who has a singing/rapping style over his playing and a lot of the songs he did were built on standard jazz chords, so basically a fast upbeat jazz style. It was very unique and it sounded great and the audience reception was great. Your just not going to get that kind of audience reception with "smooth jazz" aka "elevator music".

If we lose smooth jazz and get more acid jazz and its variants, I'd be all for it.


Also one more thing, I think a lot of the problem is the association with the word "jazz" it somehow got associated with the sound of "smooth jazz" which is the worst possible thing that could happen.

[mcbean]

Originally Posted by tabl10s

Jazz players have no one to blame but themselves. Unless one is doped-up/inbreiated, why would anyone listen to atonal music?

Organ is boring along with Vibes.

Is this sarcasm?

I love the organ, vibes, and atonal music. And always sober.

If you are serious, that's like asking why does anyone listen to anything?

[AmericanEagle]

I never got into jazz.

But, I love the blues!

[posternutbag]

Originally Posted by mcbean

Is this sarcasm?

I love the organ, vibes, and atonal music. And always sober.

If you are serious, that's like asking why does anyone listen to anything?

Tabl10s does have a point, McCoy Tyner can be a little hard to listen to, and he really isn't all that "out there."

From my perspective, the main problem with jazz is that many of its finest players treat it like classical music and try to freeze the development of jazz circa 1961, after Kind of Blue and Giant Steps, but before A Love Supreme and Filles De Kilimanjaro. At least that seems to be how it is taught at my school (full disclosure, I failed my Jazz guitar audition, so my perspective is sort of an "inside/outside" one).

The problem is, the 'Real Book" has not really been updated in about 50 years. "Stardust", "Misty", "Stella by Starlight", "Cherokee", "All The Things You Are", "My Favorite Things" etc. They are all beautiful melodies, but no one in my generation knows any of these tunes, except maybe "My Favorite Things."

I have been contemplating taking tunes from the '70s, '80s, and '90s and turning them into chord melodies. In other words, do what the guys I look up to did, take pop songs and make them jazz tunes. The question, of course, is how to keep it from sounding like elevator music or Muzak, or to put it another way, like "Smooth Jazz." That is the trick, of course, having the genius to take a melody and make it even more interesting than it was. Too bad I am not a genius.

[drjond56]

A little late to the conversation here but I will chime in. My experience with jazz came as a trumpet player up through high school and in a big band and piano/trumpet duo as an adult. Picked up the guitar later and now play solo chord melody style on nylon, steel string, and electric. Basically retired from public performance. To me the demise of jazz has to do with two things. The main thing was when we went from swing to bebop people could no longer dance to the music. Music was no longer an entertaining medium to a lot of folks, and rock claimed the throne. Likewise from bop on up a lot of the playing has been more about "running chord changes" than being melodic. For the trumpet players how loud, high and fast can you go? Bad approach for the listeners. People in the audience like tunes that they can sing, hum, and whistle. As a performer I am much more interested in working the melody than messing with just the chord changes. Obviously an oversimplification to make a point.

As an aside and looking at the statistics in the original post, I wonder about all the music majors being trained in classical or encouraged in jazz. Hope they are planning on music as a hobby and not a full time career as it seems the economic opportunities are shrinking. I have 3 friends who came along in music education: one a fireman, one a police chief, and the other sells cars.

[kkfan]

Originally Posted by drjond56

A little late to the conversation here but I will chime in. My experience with jazz came as a trumpet player up through high school and in a big band and piano/trumpet duo as an adult. Picked up the guitar later and now play solo chord melody style on nylon, steel string, and electric. Basically retired from public performance. To me the demise of jazz has to do with two things. The main thing was when we went from swing to bebop people could no longer dance to the music. Music was no longer an entertaining medium to a lot of folks, and rock claimed the throne. Likewise from bop on up a lot of the playing has been more about "running chord changes" than being melodic. For the trumpet players how loud, high and fast can you go? Bad approach for the listeners. People in the audience like tunes that they can sing, hum, and whistle. As a performer I am much more interested in working the melody than messing with just the chord changes. Obviously an oversimplification to make a point.

As an aside and looking at the statistics in the original post, I wonder about all the music majors being trained in classical or encouraged in jazz. Hope they are planning on music as a hobby and not a full time career as it seems the economic opportunities are shrinking. I have 3 friends who came along in music education: one a fireman, one a police chief, and the other sells cars.

You make some very good points.

[EoE]

yep all the stuff I am writing and playing has a dance beat.. I think that is key.. good beat and great melody.. which works for me as bass is my first love and I dig funk, rock and afro/Cuban groves. I just had another thought about how some jazz cats have been self destructive. why is this discussion under arch tops when the most exciting, successful and new players have been either solid body electric players or acoustic players.

[Howard Klepper]

Originally Posted by tabl10s

Jazz players have no one to blame but themselves. Unless one is doped-up/inbreiated, why would anyone listen to atonal music? I'm an audiophile and once heard a Kenny Rollins album on a $20k turntable. During the selection, he vibrated a note for about 15 seconds.
Technically "10" . Musically "-0"!

Organ is boring along with Vibes.

This is pretty funny, considering that bebop is strictly tonal, and there is no Kenny Rollins. But thanks for sharing!

[iim7V7IM7]

Originally Posted by Howard Klepper

This is pretty funny, considering that bebop is strictly tonal, and there is no Kenny Rollins. But thanks for sharing!

I can listen to Jim Hall play with Sonny on "The Bridge" all day (and I used to on my high-end turntable..).

[815C]

Check out this young band from Sweden, Dirty Loops, doing a jazz version/cover of Justin Bieber - yes Justin Bieber. 5.9 million views on YouTube. Gives me hope for the next generation.

They seem to have found a formula that works. Insanely awesome musicianship & arrangements of insanely awful pop tunes.

[Bluemonk]

Originally Posted by Howard Klepper

This is pretty funny, considering that bebop is strictly tonal, and there is no Kenny Rollins. But thanks for sharing!

Sure there is, but as a hoopster, I wouldn't expect much tonality from his tenor sax.