KK pure mini and Schatten HFN (tape and putty install) comparison video

[Monsum]

I decided to replace a K&K pure mini pickup with a passive Schatten HFN in my Gibson Hummingbird TV. The K&K was superglued and for the Schatten I used the tape first, wasn't too happy with the sound and so then used putty.
You can hear all three tones in the video. I tried to do both fingerstyle and flat picking/strumming playing.
It's a direct recording through a Fishman Platinum preamp and an Audient iD4 audio interface.

Which sound do you like most?

[varmonter]

for my ear its a toss up between the kk and
the putty install. The putty seems warmer than
the tape.

[Cuki79]

I like the tape better... I have no idea if translates the True acoustic tone of the guitar, but I like it.

[jonfields45]

Similar to my experience at home (I played the video through my CP8), with no EQ I prefer the K&K. After EQ I thought the HFN tape was best.

My personal selection of the HFN was driven by not wanting to use cyanoacrylate in a CF guitar.

[GuitarLuva]

First off thanks for taking the time to do this comparison...much appreciated. I liked the sound of the HFN tape install for the fingerstyle stuff and the putty for everything else. It's all a personal preference of course and I think there's no doubt the putty produces a warmer tone than the tape. You can really hear how the K&K lacks the "air" that the HFN has and it does sound more like a piezo. At the end of the day though either of them would be usable to tweak to your hearts content.

[SpruceTop]

Great Video! I like the Schatten HFN tape installs as a good compromise for fingerpicking and flatpicking. One thing for sure is that aggressive flatpicking is the true test of any pickup and pickup/preamp system. Although you're using the Fishman preamp as a buffer for sure, you haven't indicated if all these samples are EQed to get what you consider the best tone from each one or are they all Flat EQ? Thanks!

[Monsum]

Originally Posted by jonfields45

Similar to my experience at home (I played the video through my CP8), with no EQ I prefer the K&K. After EQ I thought the HFN tape was best.

My personal selection of the HFN was driven by not wanting to use cyanoacrylate in a CF guitar.

Agreed, no night and day difference between the KK and the Schatten.
Based on this particular samples (in this particular guitar etc.) for fingerstyle I prefer the KK but for strumming (and I'm mostly a strummer) the putty HFN.
And yes, what I like about the Schatten is not just the sound but easy install/removal.

[Monsum]

Originally Posted by GuitarLuva

First off thanks for taking the time to do this comparison...much appreciated.

It took me longer to make (all the editing and audio/video synchronising) the video than the two Schatten installations combined.
Didn't realize before how time consuming it is to create a fairly good looking video clip.

[Monsum]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

Great Video! I like the Schatten HFN tape installs as a good compromise for fingerpicking and flatpicking. One thing for sure is that aggressive flatpicking is the true test of any pickup and pickup/preamp system. Although you're using the Fishman preamp as a buffer for sure, you haven't indicated if all these samples are EQed to get what you consider the best tone from each one or are they all Flat EQ? Thanks!

As mentioned in the youtube description of the video there is a hint of reverb added in a DAW, I'm not sure if it can be heard.

Yes, I used the Fishman preamp EQ by applying exactly the same amount of a middle frequency cut (probably about 6dB) in each pickup but at a different frequency centre to suit the tone.
Of course the cuts are subjective but I assumed that anyone who uses a passive pickup plugs it in a preamp with EQ or an amp with EQ or something like that and make use of it.
I didn't boost/cut bass or treble just the mids as described.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by Monsum

As mentioned in the youtube description of the video there is a hint of reverb added in a DAW, I'm not sure if it can be heard.

Yes, I used the Fishman preamp EQ by applying exactly the same amount of a middle frequency cut (probably about 6dB) in each pickup but at a different frequency centre to suit the tone.
Of course the cuts are subjective but I assumed that anyone who uses a passive pickup plugs it in a preamp with EQ or an amp with EQ or something like that and make use of it.
I didn't boost/cut bass or treble just the mids as described.

Thanks! Your video is very informative and will help many players in their installations.

[Gordon Currie]

Thanks for doing this.

I listened on both Audioengine desktop speakers and Equator Audio D5 studio monitors. My impressions:

The K+K provides a nice consistent sound, but with a fair amount of high-bass/low-midrange muddiness.

The HFN tape install loses the K+K mud, but has a lot of LOWER bass peakiness. Nice highs, but the peakiness ruined it for me.

The HFN putty sounds the most balanced, with minimal mud, and clear highs.

[Petty1818]

Just listened with headphones and the HFN with the tape is the best IMO. It doesn't have as much piezo tone to it and it really does sound like a mic. The putty is nice as well but it does seem to prove the statement Les makes in the manual for the HFN which states that putty can transmit more high end.

The K&K is fine but I can hear a lot of that transducer tone. It's also far to low end heavy. I think as a result, it makes the HFN sound a bit weak in the low end. With that said, I have found the HFN to be balanced but the issue is that a lot of us want an enhanced low end.

What I want to try is installing the HFN alongside the Schatten dualie or one of their small, piezo discs that can be had for less than $60. Schatten has the stereo HFN option where both pickups have a volume but the signal comes out mono. I feel like placing a disc or dualie around the low E string and blending it in just a bit, might give the HFN the bass boost that I find it lacks at times.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

Just listened with headphones and the HFN with the tape is the best IMO. It doesn't have as much piezo tone to it and it really does sound like a mic. The putty is nice as well but it does seem to prove the statement Les makes in the manual for the HFN which states that putty can transmit more high end.

The K&K is fine but I can hear a lot of that transducer tone. It's also far to low end heavy. I think as a result, it makes the HFN sound a bit weak in the low end. With that said, I have found the HFN to be balanced but the issue is that a lot of us want an enhanced low end.

What I want to try is installing the HFN alongside the Schatten dualie or one of their small, piezo discs that can be had for less than $60. Schatten has the stereo HFN option where both pickups have a volume but the signal comes out mono. I feel like placing a disc or dualie around the low E string and blending it in just a bit, might give the HFN the bass boost that I find it lacks at times.

That's what I would do as a quick and easy way to get more bass in the signal. It's cheap and easy and can be repeated for better positioning until you're satisfied with the overall tone of the combo.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

That's what I would do as a quick and easy way to get more bass in the signal. It's cheap and easy and can be repeated for better positioning until you're satisfied with the overall tone of the combo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE5710f8Z2Q

Here's a clip of an HFN Artist 2 with the Schatten Dualie. I have no idea where the Dualie is placed inside the guitar or how much is blended in but it does make me want to try it.

[Monsum]

I'm now trying to find the right equalization spots for the Schatten when played through a PA and I'm finding that cutting as much as 12dB at around 2.5kHz-3kHz still leaves enough highs to sound natural but at the same time removing the harshness.
Whereas with the K&K my main go-to frequency to cut was at about 700Hz. It shows how different these two are. I don't find the HFN lacking in lows and probably for live use I might even cut some of the bass.
It definitely has less lows and low-mids than the K&K but for strumming I don't need too much of it.