Epiphone Archtop’s for solo acoustic work

[therailriders]

I am looking for a new campfire, stage guitar as I gave my pops my 114e. There are some used Epiphone Masterbuilt options, specifically the Zenith, in my area and I’m considering going this route for my stage guitar.


I need to be able to play it with a fairly heavy right hand, not too much flat picking but an aggressive finger style. My guess is it will take med strings with a wound 3rd strings well and won’t be very loud unplugged. Which is fine, I have other options as needed.


My thought is the archtop will offer a unique tone plugged in as a singers guitar with some decent playability and I can be cool when I go to jazz gigs; not really. I am good with floating bridges but have never giged with an archtop.


Is this a bad idea?

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by therailriders

I am looking for a new campfire, stage guitar as I gave my pops my 114e. There are some used Epiphone Masterbuilt options, specifically the Zenith, in my area, and I’m considering going this route for my stage guitar...

Is this a bad idea?

If you're familiar with the well-respected Seagull mini-jumbos the (discontinued) Godin 5th Avenue acoustic is their long-lost archtop cousin, and IMO a better option in terms of QC (the usual Godin-family high standard)/playability (ditto)/tone (IME more responsive, more "balanced" sounding for a player coming over from flattops, and more projective - FYI laminated tops aren't as detrimental to archtop tone as they are to a flattop). Based on what the late-model Epi Zeniths sold for new, it shouldn't be too difficult finding one for sale in the same price bracket - and if you can spring the extra bucks, a good used Loar LH-600 (watch the neck geometry on these - when they're good they're good, but when they're bad... ) might also be a good option if you can handle an honest-to-Mother-Maybelle 1920's-style thick V-neck...

[RLetson]

I've been underwhelmed by the Epi revival archtops I've played, and I second Mr. DeRosa's take on the Loar LH-600--the one I have is more than respectable. And a step or three up would be a used Eastman. Or, if you have the time and patience, go looking for an older player/student-grade instrument.

[RomanS]

Some thoughts from somebody who uses acoustic archtops:

STAY AWAY from those Epi Masterbuilt "archtops"! Those are junk; there's just a barely noticeable arch to the pressed top; they are super-quiet, and don't sound very good (didn't try them plugged in, but there are barely any acoustic archtop players who use piezo bridges, these are really not popular).
As a big fan of Dave Rawlings I was very happy when I found Epi was doing a remake of the Olympic - and then was seriously underwhelmed when I got to try one (I also tried some of the other models).
They don't really sound like acoustic archtops, either, more like those cheapo flattops with floating bridges from the 60s and 70s.
Oh, and while they look awesome in pictures, up close that matte finish looks very plastic-y...
I guess there's a reason why this line got discontinued so quickly, and why you see them at highly reduced sale prices at a lot of stores.

Here's what I personally use (I play country, Western swing, Americana, rockabilly):

The Loar LH300:
This is an exact copy of a 1920/30s acoustic archtop - and sounds like it: very loud, very forward, slightly brash, lots of midrange, but very little bass (which might be aproblem if you play by yourself - but is great if you play with a bass player). BIG V neck (both in width and depth), wide string spread at the bridge (might be good for fingerpicking).
Like most purely acoustic archtops, these need fat strings to bring out the tone, don't even think about using anything smaller than 12s.
Also, those are intended for being played with a heavy pick - if you want to fingerpick them, you might need a super strong right hand, and possibly, a thumbpick.
Some reviews mention spotty quality control on those, and mine could have benefitted from a fret job when bought new, but on mine there were none of the reported finish problems
Also, on stage you need a microphone, or you need to install a floating magnetic pickup (which reduces you choice in string types - I recommend GHS White Bronze for a compromise between unplugged and magnetic pickup tone).

Godin 5th Avenue Kingpin:
I've got the 2x P90/cutaway version, but there are versions with just a neck pickup, or without any pickup at all, and without a cutaway - some of them discontinued.
Those are super light builds with very thin laminate tops - they sound 1000x better than the Epi, much more lively, but still not as good as the Loar (much less volume, slightly boxy); might be fine for playing by yourself, but another player with a flattop will definitely drown you, volume-wise. On the other hand, they need much less picking force than the Loar to get the top vibrating, so better for fingerpicking?
Also, the neck shape is slightly unusual, rather thin (speaking depth, not width!), with a flat back and pronounced shoulders - might be more familiar for you if coming from modern electric guitars, personally, I would prefer a chunky baseball bat neck...

Archtop alternatives which I don't own but have tried:

Eastman: Their solid top acoustic models (NOT their laminate top electric archtops) would be perfect for fingerpicking - those are X-braced, rathern than having the parallel tonebars of classic archtops like the Loar - so they have a much rounder, fuller tone, and require less playing force. Unfortunately, they are quite a bit more pricey than the alternatives.

Stanford CR Vanguard: Those are like a less expensive take on what Eastman does, that brand name is marketed by the same German corporation that does Sigma acoustics and Maybach electrics, but they are built in Asia; solid top, single neck pickup; I was only ever able to play one once, at a store, and I'd say it's rather similar to the Godin in tone.

Quite frankly, for your application - campfire fingerpicking & plugged in jazzy tones on stage - I would stick with a flattop acoustic, something robust, not too large bodied - and maybe add a magnetic soundhole pickup (Maybe even something for electric guitar, but with a soundhole mount? Or how about that Gretsch Deltoluxe pickup?) & strings working with that (GHS White Bronze...) for plugged in electric tones...

But whatever you do - don't waste your money on those Epi Masterbuilts!

[Mooh]

I had the Zenith and found it underwhelming acoustically, but okay plugged in. The action was fantastic, it looked great, and was fairly light in weight, but the acoustic tone and volume just didn't impress me. If I was back in the market and looking for bang for the buck, I'd seriously consider the Godin archtops.

[RJVB]

Timely thread for me!

Originally Posted by RomanS

Eastman: Their solid top acoustic models (NOT their laminate top electric archtops) would be perfect for fingerpicking - those are X-braced, rathern than having the parallel tonebars of classic archtops like the Loar - so they have a much rounder, fuller tone, and require less playing force. Unfortunately, they are quite a bit more pricey than the alternatives.

Any suggestions on what models (there are so many...)? FWIW, I've been leaning towards a Loar LH650 but I definitely am interested in models known to work well acoustically with (really) low tension strings (the afore-mentioned Seagull mini-jumbo does for me, btw).
EDIT: A wide nut-width is important to me, too.

[therailriders]

Thanks for all the input. I went and checked out the little EPi. As with most things epiphone it was uninspired. Quite playable and fairly well built for 400.00, it had the tone of a 1963 Sears Elvis flattop with dead strings. Which is to say it had no tone.

[Silly Moustache]

Originally Posted by therailriders

I am looking for a new campfire, stage guitar as I gave my pops my 114e. There are some used Epiphone Masterbuilt options, specifically the Zenith, in my area and I’m considering going this route for my stage guitar.


I need to be able to play it with a fairly heavy right hand, not too much flat picking but an aggressive finger style. My guess is it will take med strings with a wound 3rd strings well and won’t be very loud unplugged. Which is fine, I have other options as needed.


My thought is the archtop will offer a unique tone plugged in as a singers guitar with some decent playability and I can be cool when I go to jazz gigs; not really. I am good with floating bridges but have never giged with an archtop.


Is this a bad idea?

I tried the "new" Epiphone archtops when they first became available here in the UK.

I went with a jazz playing friend. They were in the "acoustic room"
The attentive sales assistant found us two stools, put the three different guitars on stands ..and then got us a small but, presumably good amplifier and lead.

The fit and finish of all the guitars seemed nice enough - semi gloss, but quite pretty. and playability was fine. They had no obvious magnetic pickups. but assistant immediately plugged them in for us.

Plugged in they sounded quite nice - bit too bass heavy for a real archtop and acoustically rather bland - but quite reasonable for a c. 500 £/$/e guitar.

They aren't really acoustic guitars, and I get a way fuller sound from my '60s pressed top Harmony Monterey.

I see from the Epiphone website that they are no longer offered.

For a description see :

Demos :

[mr. beaumont]

The masterbuilt Epiphone archtops were a swing and a miss, really...they weren't much acoustically, and then they had that quacky, bassy undersaddle pickup which really didn't produce anything remotely archtop sounding through an amp...I think they were guitars for people who liked the look of an archtop but not the sound.

If they had put a floating pickup on these, they could have been useable as a plugged in jazz type guitar, they weren't bad playing instruments...

[Silly Moustache]

OP was asking about the Zenith

sorry - so :

[RomanS]

Originally Posted by RJVB

Timely thread for me!



Any suggestions on what models (there are so many...)? FWIW, I've been leaning towards a Loar LH650 but I definitely am interested in models known to work well acoustically with (really) low tension strings (the afore-mentioned Seagull mini-jumbo does for me, btw).
EDIT: A wide nut-width is important to me, too.

You'll have to see what's available, and then check their homepage for the specs - yes, the line up is confusing; for unplugged use, you want one with a solid top, not a laminate; floating pickup would be better for unplugged use, but a neck pickup only model should also do. AR610, 810, 503, etc.
Most of them have 1-3/4" nuts (only a few models have 1-11/16").