Left Hand Technique, Pain, & Frustration

[s0cks]

I'm frustrated. I feel like I'm improving at snails pace. I can't seem to get through many songs without a mistake, even those I've practiced for months.

My left hand is a bugger. I find my left hand tensing up often when I play. I can play open chords all day long (ones where the thumb wraps round the back of the neck). This is bad technique but it doesn't hurt. The problem is when I try and play with good technique (thumb on back of neck, wrist as straight as possible, but bent forward for stretchy chords) the tendons in the back of my hand tend to hurt. It's not through a lack of practice either - I can play some difficult chords without too much trouble, and barre chords don't phase me much (though barring, even just 2 strings, definitely strains the hand quicker than anything else), it's just after prolonged playing. A few songs and the pain starts to set in.

I try and play with as little pressure, and as light a hand, as possible but I just can't seem to reach a comfortable point. I have to give a certain amount of pressure to stop fret buzzing, and eventually the back of my hand tires and aches. I'm sure this is holding me back.

I wonder if it's my guitar setup. Could anyone with a Taylor GS mini (or I guess any acoustic really) tell me how high the action is @ their 12th fret?

I guess an option is for me to try playing on the electric for a bit ad seeing if my playing improves, though I'd prefer to play the acoustic.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by s0cks

I'm frustrated. I feel like I'm improving at snails pace. I can't seem to get through many songs without a mistake, even those I've practiced for months.

My left hand is a bugger. I find my left hand tensing up often when I play. I can play open chords all day long (ones where the thumb wraps round the back of the neck). This is bad technique but it doesn't hurt. The problem is when I try and play with good technique (thumb on back of neck, wrist as straight as possible, but bent forward for stretchy chords) the tendons in the back of my hand tend to hurt. It's not through a lack of practice either - I can play some difficult chords without too much trouble, and barre chords don't phase me much (though barring, even just 2 strings, definitely strains the hand quicker than anything else), it's just after prolonged playing. A few songs and the pain starts to set in.

I try and play with as little pressure, and as light a hand, as possible but I just can't seem to reach a comfortable point. I have to give a certain amount of pressure to stop fret buzzing, and eventually the back of my hand tires and aches. I'm sure this is holding me back.

I wonder if it's my guitar setup. Could anyone with a Taylor GS mini (or I guess any acoustic really) tell me how high the action is @ their 12th fret?

I guess an option is for me to try playing on the electric for a bit ad seeing if my playing improves, though I'd prefer to play the acoustic.

Check your nut height first: put a capo on fret 1 and see if the strings are easier to press down.
If they are - noticeably - then your nut is too high. Set-up recommended!
Of course, if the bridge height and neck relief are also wrong (the two other factors) they'll fix those too.

You can fix the neck relief yourself (unlikely to be necessary, but plenty of online tips), but the nut is the first thing to check.

There's a guide here to action at 12th fret - the figures may not be ideal for everyone (or every guitar), but are a good ballpark:
http://www.guitaradventures.com/5-st...coustic-guitar

Otherwise - especially if your nut height and 12th fret height are both optimum - I agree about fitting lighter strings. Most acoustics come with 12s (or even 13s) as standards, but you'll notice a big increase in playability (and not much loss of tone or volume) with 11s. (Fitting lighter strings will probably need a small truss rod adjustment.)

There's a thread on GS Mini set-up here:
http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=217205

[SprintBob]

All of the above but an additional suggestion to try to take your focus off your left hand and focus on making the music with your right hand because it sounds like you have the basic left hand mechanics down. Think of it like a skier coming down a mountain, the smart and fast one is looking way ahead and the one who is crashing is looking at the moguls right in front of him. It's training your mind to look ahead and anticipate and I think it works for playing guitar.

I was and still am in the situation you are experiencing but this technique has helped me a lot. I got it off a lesson set on JamPlay so not taking credit for it, just passing it on.

Good Luck.

[Dalegreen]

could it be your left hand?
Lots of finger / wrist stretching and strengthening exercises one can do without picking up the guitar.
A really great one ( from Victor Wooten when I attended a 5 day workshop with him a few years back) is to put your arms / hands straight out.
Clench your hand open / closed rapidly, (and really stretch those fingers out) for 30 seconds. Build it up to one minute eventually several times a day.
I have done that exercise randomly on a daily basis now for over 6 years, really builds wrist strength and can be done anytime and anywhere.

Also the benefit of a daily brisk walk with arms swinging back / forth circulates the blood well to the hands.

[s0cks]

Thanks everyone. I think I need a break for a day or two. I checked my action against others preferred setups with the GS Mini and to be honest, it's pretty much already in the ballpark so that may not be the issue. The nut height seems fine to me and using a capo doesn't make the guitar significantly easier to play. I do want a professional setup though, at some point when I can afford it.

I'm leaning back towards it being my technique. I think years of playing punk with aggressive power chords has made me play with quite a tense left hand, and now that I'm playing more melodic, fingerstyle, acoustic stuff, it doesn't work so well.

I think I need to actively step back and start re-learning songs with a gentle, smooth, touch. I've also never been able to do scale runs very quickly at all. In fact, I'm absurdly slow at them, but I never put any effort in because I wasn't that keen on shredding out solos. But maybe some scale run exercises would be useful in increasing my left hand dexterity. Especially my ring and pinky which slow me down heaps in such runs.

[deltoid]

Why You Suck On Guitar-Reason#3: Your Left Hand Was Not Developed Properly!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0GwXIM_8YE

[kurth83]

Things I know of that make fretting easier, I tried them all, some by accident when I bought the T5z:
- lighter strings
- lower action
- shorter scale
- taller frets
- better technique/left hand development.
- left hand exercises

Taller/jumbo frets were the surprise for me, they forced me to learn play with a lighter touch so not to bend strings sharp (that took a long time to adjust), I can hear when I am not fretting properly on the top 2 strings. The lower ones are likely to buzz or sound weak if I don't press hard enough, those two cues have helped me to clean up my fretting a lot. The idea is to use minimum pressure on each string, my endurance has gone up as a result of not hamfisting it anymore.

[Pitar]

If I was learning to play guitar all over again and had the smarts to start out right, I'd use a nylon string guitar like a cross-over. If the point is to learn the mechanics of playing, steel strings are simply not as conducive to that goal as nylon strings are.

[GHS]

Take a few days off, like a lot of days off. When you come back things just fall into place. Sometimes you just need to give your brain a rest to put thinks in order and then BANG, it just happens. I'm not the only one this happens to, its just the way it is.

[TomiPaldanius]

It might be the issue with the lack of relaxation which means that you don't know how to use earths gravity = hands own weight.

It took me a while to learn this many years ago when I did classical guitar professional studies. Once you get it, playing is so much more dynamic and easier. Basically you should be able to play barre chords with your left hand without even touching the neck with your thumb (behind the neck). Same goes to right hand technique. All kind of pressing and forcing should be minimal.

This is what Oscar Ghiglia taught to many is Siena Academy in Italy and is one of the "secrets" many professors who teach in European (I guess in US also) music academies. Works in fingerstyle also.

You need to be relaxed all the way from the shoulders. Both left and right. Otherwise your playing will have those mistakes and you will feel nervous.

For example here I play Jimi Hendrix -Little Wing.

You can see how my left hand is kind of hanging on the fingerboard with minimal effort. It almost wants to fall down but is there as relaxed as possible and I don't need to force any of those barre chords. Playing is basically about emotion and memory after you have the technique right.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by s0cks

I've also never been able to do scale runs very quickly at all. In fact, I'm absurdly slow at them, but I never put any effort in because I wasn't that keen on shredding out solos. But maybe some scale run exercises would be useful in increasing my left hand dexterity. Especially my ring and pinky which slow me down heaps in such runs.

This!
From everything you say (including about the guitar) I'd prescribe "more scale exercise".
It's not about playing fast, but plainly cleanly and confidently, at all tempos, and with all 4 fretting fingers equally competent.

An exercise I always recommend (because it's the only one I ever tried which produced significant improvement in my playing even after 5 minutes) is to play a scale with fret hand only.
Do it fairly slow to a metronome (eg 120, one note per click), playing with hammer-ons and pull-offs only - no picking! - making sure each note is in time, and as legato as possible, meaning no gaps between the notes. (Hammer-on when ascending, and pull-off when descending, exactly in time with the clicks.)
Naturally make sure you pick a pattern where ring and pinky have at least as much work as index and middle.
It's about giving the fret hand responsibility for timing and articulation, independent of the pick hand, so that when you bring the right hand back in both hands will be synchronised, and your playing will sound stronger and cleaner.

You can also exercise ring and pinky with the simple 1-2-3-4 one-string warm-up: fretting one string, one finger per fret, up and down, and in random orders. Especially 1-4-1 , 1-3-1, 2-4-2, 3-4-3, 2-3-2, etc. to really involve ring and pinky. Can be in any position on the neck (and any string), but obviously exercises stretching when at low frets. (You can pick for this exercise if you like, but even better just as hammer-ons and pull-offs.)

[s0cks]

Great advice from everyone. Deltoid, I actually ended up buying her Guitar Principles ebook which stresses the importance of minimum, relaxed movement and she goes into great detail on how the fingers should be positioned and how one should mentally focus on releasing tension when practicing.

Tomi, again, I think you are right and reinforcing the correct principles. The whole idea of using gravity to create most of the pressure necessary is something which the ebook above stresses too. I'm not looking forward to tackling bars, but it will need to be done. I can play some bars without much effort already, but most of the time my hand tires very quickly when using them.

And Jon, I like your idea. I had already started doing scale runs with light hammer ons using the left hand only. I hadn't thought about doing pull-offs too.

I'm going back to basics and really working on my left hand technique. I need to build in a relaxed, lighter touch to my muscle memory until it becomes the norm. I expect this is going to take a while (months probably), but if I want to break out of beginner mode then I need to do this.

[s0cks]

UPDATE:

So the good news is that I've now found my problem areas. The bad news is that most, if not all, of my technique was woeful. And here I was thinking I was doing a good job!

Too many "learn guitar" sites and videos are packed with wrong information (or no information) on actually holding and playing the guitar correctly.

One major breakthrough for me over the last few days, for example, is to firm the fingers and then use the weight of the arm falling with gravity to apply the pressure. Using these large muscle groups gives me FAR more control over how much pressure I exert too. Allowing me to pull my arm back with more force for some of the pesky barre chords, without having to squeeze and hurt my fingers.

I used to instead push the strings down by using the opposing force between the fingers and the thumb, but this locks tension into your playing. Now I can play without even using the thumb, even for barre chords. Of course, I do use the thumb, but it shows you how passive a role the thumb actually plays. The amount of sites that suggest finger and thumb workouts to build muscle power, so you can squeeze the neck, is unreal! It's complete misinformation!

Now everything feels far more effortless and just after a few days I'm already noticing improvements in songs that haven't improved in months.

Still got a long way to go, and I'm concentrating on left hand finger independence now, and preventing fret fly away, pinky finger curling/tensing, etc...

It really is like someone's turned on a light bulb in my head. All thanks to the Guitar Principles book by Jamie Andreas.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by s0cks

UPDATE:

So the good news is that I've now found my problem areas. The bad news is that most, if not all, of my technique was woeful. And here I was thinking I was doing a good job!

Too many "learn guitar" sites and videos are packed with wrong information (or no information) on actually holding and playing the guitar correctly.

One major breakthrough for me over the last few days, for example, is to firm the fingers and then use the weight of the arm falling with gravity to apply the pressure. Using these large muscle groups gives me FAR more control over how much pressure I exert too. Allowing me to pull my arm back with more force for some of the pesky barre chords, without having to squeeze and hurt my fingers.

I used to instead push the strings down by using the opposing force between the fingers and the thumb, but this locks tension into your playing. Now I can play without even using the thumb, even for barre chords. Of course, I do use the thumb, but it shows you how passive a role the thumb actually plays. The amount of sites that suggest finger and thumb workouts to build muscle power, so you can squeeze the neck, is unreal! It's complete misinformation!

Now everything feels far more effortless and just after a few days I'm already noticing improvements in songs that haven't improved in months.

Still got a long way to go, and I'm concentrating on left hand finger independence now, and preventing fret fly away, pinky finger curling/tensing, etc...

It really is like someone's turned on a light bulb in my head. All thanks to the Guitar Principles book by Jamie Andreas.

Good news!

But this all comes under the heading of "whatever works". For me, I do squeeze between fingers and thumb pad, and don't recall ever having serious problems with it. It was certainly difficult to start with (I'm a puny guy, and my first guitar had a terrible action): the "F" chord was a monster I had to slay! Conquering F was my sole ambition at the time! But it never caused me the problems you're describing. But then I was an adolescent at the time, and maybe it just helps being younger.

However, I do exert some pulling back on the neck. I didn't think I did, but I just checked - it's subconscious. I can barre successfully, and without much effort, without the pulling back - by moving my right arm away from the guitar. But as soon as I put my right arm back on the guitar, I can sense that I'm bracing it, and the barre get easier. (But it's not enough without the thumb pressure - take my thumb away, and I need to pull back harder, and more unnaturally; and it also bends the neck, causing strings to go sharp, and risking fretbuzz.)

IOW, it's not that the squeezing is "misinformation". Nobody deliberately misinforms in that way. It's just people describing how they play, what works for them. And maybe not enough describing the technique you're talking about, which obviously works for you.
Quite probably, people not realising the subconscious moves they're making. This is actually quite common with teachers, at least the less experienced kind - who may put a lot of thought into their playing, but less into their teaching. The more experienced you are as a player, the more your technique is subconscious. You simply forget how you do what you're doing, and what kind of effort you had to apply at the beginnng; as well as forgetting what it was like not to know what you know now.
That's the big problem all teachers face: working their way back through their habits, to dig behind what they take for granted, to a time when they didn't know all that, to understand what it's like to be a beginner.

[s0cks]

That makes sense Jon. I guess for the likes of F I do squeeze a little, but I believe this is to better stabilise the fingers rather than provide any real counter force. It's certainly a lot different than how I used to do it, which would leave me with a tired hand after a song that used a lot of barre chords.

I believe you are right, it should become such a subconscious action that I doubt most people even realize they are doing it. The problem was I never did it right to begin with. I notice a lot of classical guitarist sites and teachers do go into this level of detail, but casual guitar teachers tend not to, probably for the reason you state. They aren't even aware that they do it!