K&K vs JJB vs JourneyTek pickups?

[Ralph124C41]

I've gone through the history of posts here about these pickups and so I wonder if there is a clear winner (which I imagine would be the K&K Pure Mini) as well as a No. 2 and a No. 3.

Thoughts ... especially from you folks who have tried one against the other?

From my readings I am guessing the K&K is the leader ... but how far is it better than each of the others? I mean it is worth than double the price of the other units?

If we give the crown to the K&K which then would be No. 2 ... the JJB Prestige 330 or the JourneyTek? I'm a little concerned the JourneyTek has 20mm sensors and somebody have reported they have had problems adhering them to the underneath of the saddle, especially in a smaller guitar. I don't know how true that may be. The JJB can be bought with both 15mm and 20mm sensors and the 15mm would be recommended for my guitars.

I understand the JJB unit doesn't come with any templates or, I think, even a printed manual ... but there will be an email link plus there are Youtube installation videos available. So it seems to be more of a barebones product but that will be fine for me.

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by Ralph124C41

I've gone through the history of posts here about these pickups and so I wonder if there is a clear winner (which I imagine would be the K&K Pure Mini) as well as a No. 2 and a No. 3.

Thoughts ... especially from you folks who have tried one against the other?

From my readings I am guessing the K&K is the leader ... but how far is it better than each of the others? I mean it is worth than double the price of the other units?

If we give the crown to the K&K which then would be No. 2 ... the JJB Prestige 330 or the JourneyTek? I'm a little concerned the JourneyTek has 20mm sensors and somebody have reported they have had problems adhering them to the underneath of the saddle, especially in a smaller guitar. I don't know how true that may be. The JJB can be bought with both 15mm and 20mm sensors and the 15mm would be recommended for my guitars.

I understand the JJB unit doesn't come with any templates or, I think, even a printed manual ... but there will be an email link plus there are Youtube installation videos available. So it seems to be more of a barebones product but that will be fine for me.

I posted my thoughts on the differences between the JJB and the K&K in this K&K Pure Mini Tips topic.

The other hugely aggravating difference is the cheaper output jack of the JJB has only a single hole drilled through the barrel shaft. The drilled hole for the K&K extends through both sides and makes tightening the jack a whole bunch easier. Using an Allen wrench through the double holes of the K&K makes it much less likely to deform the threads on the barrel, making it much easier and safer when the trim nut is added as the final installation step.

Drilling the second hole isn't difficult, but some may not have the tools or confidence to do it.

[Ralph124C41]

Originally Posted by Rudy4

I posted my thoughts on the differences between the JJB and the K&K in this K&K Pure Mini Tips topic.

The other hugely aggravating difference is the cheaper output jack of the JJB has only a single hole drilled through the barrel shaft. The drilled hole for the K&K extends through both sides and makes tightening the jack a whole bunch easier. Using an Allen wrench through the double holes of the K&K makes it much less likely to deform the threads on the barrel, making it much easier and safer when the trim nut is added as the final installation step.

That's a good point. But can't you just manually use a steel bit and drill a hole on the opposite side?

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by Ralph124C41

That's a good point. But can't you just manually use a steel bit and drill a hole on the opposite side?

Sure, if you have the tools and the confidence.

I HIGHLY suggest to anyone installing this type of pickup to download the K&K Pure Mini user / installation guide that K&K makes freely available on their website. It's just one more thing that lets JJB sell cheaper.

[Ralph124C41]

Originally Posted by Rudy4

Sure, if you have the tools and the confidence.

I HIGHLY suggest to anyone installing this type of pickup to download the K&K Pure Mini user / installation guide that K&K makes freely available on their website. It's just one more thing that lets JJB sell cheaper.

I forgot to add my luthier buddy says he will install a system for me for a good price. Free. He makes his own specialized tools for his private line of acoustic guitars so I'm certain he can drill that for me. I will, however, give him this tip if I buy the JJB system.

And I will alert him to those online materials should he need them. I don't think he will, however, but I'm certain he would appreciate any tips. I don't know if he has installed any system like this but I do know he has installed other systems such as the Fishman Matrix.

Sorry, your photo of the drilling process didn't show up when I first read your post ... or maybe I just didn't read the whole post.

[kurth]

Ralph...there's a whole bunch of other transducers...some even less expensive...that aren't part of the 'accepted consensus'. For example...first I'd put the Barcus Berry 1457. And It's alot cheaper than the k&k's. Then Amazon has some k&k copies from Donner and Amumu that have smaller diameter transducers, which are cheaper than the JJB's and JT's. The truth is ,other than quality control, there's not alot of differences. I did a thread a little while back where I bought the cheapest Chinese transducer on amazon. It was less than 10bucks. I ran it thru Re-guitar and it sounded pretty good. I'd go with the Barcus Berry. It's got a long history. And it's conceptual design, for guitars is superior. Since it is one long strip transducer, they don't have to balance the 3 or 4 round transducers. And since it's just one placement, it's easier to install. My 2cents.

[Ralph124C41]

Originally Posted by kurth

Ralph...there's a whole bunch of other transducers...some even less expensive...that aren't part of the 'accepted consensus'. For example...first I'd put the Barcus Berry 1457. And It's alot cheaper than the k&k's. Then Amazon has some k&k copies from Donner and Amumu that have smaller diameter transducers, which are cheaper than the JJB's and JT's. The truth is ,other than quality control, there's not alot of differences. I did a thread a little while back where I bought the cheapest Chinese transducer on amazon. It was less than 10bucks. I ran it thru Re-guitar and it sounded pretty good. I'd go with the Barcus Berry. It's got a long history. And it's conceptual design, for guitars is superior. Since it is one long strip transducer, they don't have to balance the 3 or 4 round transducers. And since it's just one placement, it's easier to install. My 2cents.

I was wondering about those.

About Barcus Berry ... true sidebard story from me. Years ago, in the mid '70s I think I bought a Barcus Berry "Dot" which at the time was the hot item. It was just a little square box that you attached to the bottom of your saddle with sticky putty or better yet with a screw (there was a hole in the unit) to do that.

Then you just attached a proprietary cord that ended in a standard 1/4-inch plug.

Aw ,, there's the problem. I still have (or had) the unit. THe thing is I've lost the cord. I've tried all cords I can find and nothing works. So I have this little device (I think I do) which I haven't been able to use for decades just because I don't have the connecting cord.

[Mandobart]

The first passive piezoelectric pickup I installed was a K&K twin for my first (starter) mandolin. Later I heard about JJB and have since installed dozens of JJB's in a wide range of stringed instruments - violins, violas, all mandolin-family instruments, banjos, archtop and flattop guitars and 3 upright basses. My first JJB installs were over 15 years ago and I've had no problems with any of them.

In my experience there is no detectable difference in the quality, performance or sound between K&K and JJB passive SBT's. I've had great customer service from both. JJB prices have gone up over the years, but they're still less than K&K.

I have no experience with JourneyTek pickups.

[Marshall]

I'd worry that drilling a second hole would strip the edges of the threads and make fitting the nut over the endpin more difficult.

I bought a Journey CF travel guitar and gave it to my grandkids. I was pleasantly surprised how natural and good the guitar sounds plugged in. So, I bought a separate pickup and tired it in another guitar. Didn't turn out nearly as well so I took it out

[foleyone]

For me, it depends on the guitar. I have a custom guitar that I put a k&k in. Also had a Larrivee with a k&k. Both guitars sounded great. I purchased a fire eye based off the reviews to run the K&k through. No complaints. Later, I bought an orchid muting DI, which seems to sound just as good to my ears but has the handy muting function.

I've also installed a JJB myself in a baby Taylor. I'm satisfied with the sound and would probably install it again in other cheaper guitars. It does seem to have a bit more bass/boom than my K&K, so I have to play around the the eq to get the sound right. This could just be a result of my install or difference in guitars although I'm fairly certain I placed the transducers accurately.

Either pickup would likely be a good choice, but for my own piece of mind I go K&K first and JJB second considering the cost difference between the two is relatively minimal. K&K also includes a nice install jig whereas I had to make one from a cereal box for my JJB.

I like both companies and would be happy to support either. My customer service experience with both companies has been great. They're responsive and willing to help troubleshoot/answer questions.

[gurroz]

I have had Journey Tech's installed in two guitars and I'm about to have another one installed. My guitar tech really likes them, he thinks they are comparable to K & K with a plus. The K & K minis are hard-wired to the input which is the part that usually wears out. The Journey Tech has a cable that plugs into the input so if the input wears out it can be replaced.

[Mandobart]

Originally Posted by gurroz

I have had Journey Tech's installed in two guitars and I'm about to have another one installed. My guitar tech really likes them, he thinks they are comparable to K & K with a plus. The K & K minis are hard-wired to the input which is the part that usually wears out. The Journey Tech has a cable that plugs into the input so if the input wears out it can be replaced.

It's not difficult at all to solder the transducer wires to a new output jack on K&K or JJB pickups. I've done it on my K&K to replace the original carpenter jack with a standard internal 1/4" phone jack. I've done it on JJB's for a variety of reasons - move from the tip to the ring of a TRS jack to put a magnetic pickup on the tip, change from a switchjack that won't fit through the f-hole on a fiddle to a screw-in from the outside jack and more.

Plug-in cable doesn't matter at all to me. I've never had a decent quality jack that was correctly wired and installed (by myself) fail.

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by Marshall

I'd worry that drilling a second hole would strip the edges of the threads and make fitting the nut over the endpin more difficult.

I bought a Journey CF travel guitar and gave it to my grandkids. I was pleasantly surprised how natural and good the guitar sounds plugged in. So, I bought a separate pickup and tired it in another guitar. Didn't turn out nearly as well so I took it out

Like any other typical drilling operation, you de-burr the threads on the outside after drilling.

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by kurth

Ralph...there's a whole bunch of other transducers...some even less expensive...that aren't part of the 'accepted consensus'. For example...first I'd put the Barcus Berry 1457. And It's alot cheaper than the k&k's. Then Amazon has some k&k copies from Donner and Amumu that have smaller diameter transducers, which are cheaper than the JJB's and JT's. The truth is ,other than quality control, there's not alot of differences. I did a thread a little while back where I bought the cheapest Chinese transducer on amazon. It was less than 10bucks. I ran it thru Re-guitar and it sounded pretty good. I'd go with the Barcus Berry. It's got a long history. And it's conceptual design, for guitars is superior. Since it is one long strip transducer, they don't have to balance the 3 or 4 round transducers. And since it's just one placement, it's easier to install. My 2cents.

Therein lies the rub. These transducers require attachment to the bridge plate with gel CA if you want them to sound good.

Journeyteks have that goofy 1/8" jack and I've seen those develop bad contact, probably as a result of contact corrosion, and NONE of these are any fun to work on after they are installed, including the K&K!

There's no way I'd use a import pickup of dubious quality in a guitar I cared about, and especially if I gigged with it.

I've had enough experience with these that I feel qualified to caution folks against cheaping out.

[Ralph124C41]

Originally Posted by Rudy4

Therein lies the rub. These transducers require attachment to the bridge plate with gel CA if you want them to sound good.

But don't the three main contenders also require that to attach the transducers?

Originally Posted by Rudy4

Journeyteks have that goofy 1/8" jack and I've seen those develop bad contact, probably as a result of contact corrosion, and NONE of these are any fun to work on after they are installed, including the K&K!

But somebody else here said he favors the Journeyteks just for that reason. So I'm confused.

Originally Posted by Rudy4

There's no way I'd use a import pickup of dubious quality in a guitar I cared about, and especially if I gigged with it.

I've had enough experience with these that I feel qualified to caution folks against cheaping out.

No I wouldn't use them either.