The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > RECORD

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 11-22-2022, 03:14 PM
uptown uptown is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2022
Posts: 8
Default Help for home recording

(I'm also positing this on Gearspace, but given the nature of the project, I think I might get more specific information here)

I'm planning a home recording project with a budget around $800.

Male and female vocals (both mid/high register and fairly quiet)
Acoustic guitar
Some synth

Proposed set up:
Macbook Pro (have)
DAW: Garageband
Interface: Audient iD14 ($300)
Mics: SM57 ($90) and RODE NT1 ($230)

With tax, that comes to about $660, which should leave a bit for mic stands and some minimal room treatment.

My hope is that I can start with a home studio that is usable now and could potentially grow.

Before I pulled the trigger, I just wanted to run this through the hivemind to make sure I wasn't missing anything significant. Is this a decent set up?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-22-2022, 04:07 PM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,961
Default

Given the limits of your budget, your choices are fine. For the price, the Audient is certainly one of the best choices in the $200-$300 price range. For about a hundred bucks, the SM57 is a solid workhorse mic and the Rode is fine.

A couple of things are missing though...
You're going to need a set of closed back headphones for recording. Closed back so that the sound doesn't bleed into the mic.
You're also going to need a set of studio monitors to listen back and mix on.
__________________
Jim
2023 Iris ND-200 maple/adi
2017 Circle Strings 00 bastogne walnut/sinker redwood
2015 Circle Strings Parlor shedua/western red cedar
2009 Bamburg JSB Signature Baritone macassar ebony/carpathian spruce
2004 Taylor XXX-RS indian rosewood/sitka spruce
1988 Martin D-16 mahogany/sitka spruce

along with some electrics, zouks, dulcimers, and banjos.

YouTube
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-22-2022, 05:52 PM
Rudy4 Rudy4 is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 8,796
Default

Lots of different ways you can do this with your anticipated budget. I'd personally not use SM57s, though. They are great mics, but most any condenser that is similarly priced is going to yield better results for you. The AT2020 (side address medium diaphragm) gets a lot of positive reviews.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-24-2022, 07:28 AM
shufflebeat shufflebeat is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 1,684
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudy4 View Post
I'd personally not use SM57s, though. They are great mics, but most any condenser that is similarly priced is going to yield better results for you. The AT2020 (side address medium diaphragm) gets a lot of positive reviews.
Very much disagree - in a mix sources recorded well with the '57 will sit much nicer than cheap condensers which often have a presence peak that becomes problematic when several tracks are overlaid and also can suffer from self-noise which the '57 (or any other dynamic) doesn't which is also compounded as multiple tracks are recorded.

The newer NT1 (not NT1a, although that has its uses as well) seems to be excellent value according to reports from friends.
__________________
Give a man a fishing rod... and he's got the makings of a rudimentary banjo.

Last edited by shufflebeat; 11-24-2022 at 08:14 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-24-2022, 07:42 AM
keith.rogers's Avatar
keith.rogers keith.rogers is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,695
Default

I think that's a fine setup to start recording. I started with a pair of dynamics (2x Beta 57a, once I moved to the audio interface+computer world from the little Sony stereo mic I'd used with my Sony portable cassette recorder).

In fact, don't be afraid to try the SM57 on vocals, the RØDE on guitar, whatever. I use a dynamic on my one croaking almost all the time anymore - just fewer problems and outside or house noises to fix!

p.s. (edit) Oh, yeah, saw KW's post and the "some synth" topic slipped my mind. Unless you already have a keyboard, you should consider at least a small keyboard for managing that. Then, the issue becomes connectivity. If you have an existing keyboard, what are its outputs, i.e., analog/line (stereo?) only, MIDI or USB? And if you don't have a keyboard, do the ones you're looking at have outputs that can work with your interface or computer and DAW? If you want to use MIDI outputs from a keyboard, the interface must have a corresponding set of inputs. If you have only analog output from a keyboard, then you'll need to plug that in through the interface, but you will lose the flexibility of switching VIs in the DAW to do more experimentation. A USB output can work, even with a separate interface on USB, so long as you have enough ports available on your PC.
__________________
"I know in the morning that it's gonna be good, when I stick out my elbows and they don't bump wood." - Bill Kirchen

Last edited by keith.rogers; 11-24-2022 at 09:23 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-24-2022, 08:48 AM
KevWind's Avatar
KevWind KevWind is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Edge of Wilderness Wyoming
Posts: 19,883
Default

Unfortunately blanket statements are likely too general to be of much use for recommendations for specifics uses . I think the Rode NT 1 is a fine LDC choice for inexpensive vocal mic and BTW it is only $199 with shock mount and wind screen at Sweetwater https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...ser-microphone

IMO either the SM 57 or the AT 2020 can be quite usable DEPENDING
on what exactly the OP intends for production.
But for my self for what I do I would probably not consider either (But that is just me and my suggestion later

In a big mix with lots of instruments the 57 (which has very low almost none existent self noise) and although it actually has more of high mid boost frequency response than say the the AT 2020 It can indeed "sit in the mix" But it should be noted that "sit in the mix" actually translates to move back in the sound field ....

So again it very much depends on whether the OP wishes to feature the acoustic as the primary instrument or actually have it sit back as part of the rhythm section...??

The OP stated "some synth" ( assuming the OP is actually means VI - virtual instruments as opposed to an actual synthesizer) if so that is pretty vague as far as what kind VI's and how many

For me personally I do use VI's but only to back up my featuring of vocal and acoustic guitar,,,, so for me I would be much more inclined to consider something like a matched pair of Rode M5's for $149 https://www.sweetwater.com/c105--Con...E&gclsrc=aw.ds
__________________
Enjoy the Journey.... Kev...

KevWind at Soundcloud

KevWind at YouYube
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...EZxkPKyieOTgRD

System :
Studio system Avid Carbon interface , PT Ultimate 2023.12 -Mid 2020 iMac 27" 3.8GHz 8-core i7 10th Gen ,, Ventura 13.2.1

Mobile MBP M1 Pro , PT Ultimate 2023.12 Ventura 12.2.1

Last edited by KevWind; 11-24-2022 at 01:52 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-24-2022, 10:28 AM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,961
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by uptown View Post
some minimal room treatment.
If by "some minimal room treatment" you mean foam, don't waste your money. Foam is inadequate as room treatment. It will attenuate some high frequencies but those are not typically the issue in home studios. In the majority of home studios, it's the buildup of low frequencies that is the biggest issue and for that you need proper bass traps.

Take a look at the "AGF MEMBERS GEAR MASTERLIST with RECOMMENDED TUTORIAL VIDEOS & PODCASTS" thread stickied at the top of this subforum. In post #16, there are videos about room treatment.
__________________
Jim
2023 Iris ND-200 maple/adi
2017 Circle Strings 00 bastogne walnut/sinker redwood
2015 Circle Strings Parlor shedua/western red cedar
2009 Bamburg JSB Signature Baritone macassar ebony/carpathian spruce
2004 Taylor XXX-RS indian rosewood/sitka spruce
1988 Martin D-16 mahogany/sitka spruce

along with some electrics, zouks, dulcimers, and banjos.

YouTube
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-24-2022, 12:51 PM
DCCougar DCCougar is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: North Idaho
Posts: 2,941
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by keith.rogers View Post
........If you have an existing keyboard, what are its outputs, i.e., analog/line (stereo?) only, MIDI or USB?
I just run a 1/4" guitar cable out of my synth into the audio interface.
__________________

2018 Guild F-512 Sunburst -- 2007 Guild F412 Ice Tea burst
2002 Guild JF30-12 Whiskeyburst -- 2011 Guild F-50R Sunburst
2011 Guild GAD D125-12 NT -- 
1972 Epiphone FT-160 12-string
2012 Epiphone Dot CH
 -- 2010 Epiphone Les Paul Standard trans amber 

2013 Yamaha Motif XS7

Cougar's Soundcloud page
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-24-2022, 01:51 PM
shufflebeat shufflebeat is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 1,684
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
I think the Rode NT 1 is a fine LDC choice for inexpensive vocal mic and BTW it is only $199 with shock mount and wind screen at Sweetwater https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...ser-microphone
That's not an nt1, this is an nt1:

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/rode-nt1

(The Sweetwater one is the nt1a, which is a different beastie altogether)

Quote:

In a big mix with lots of instruments the 57 (which, being a dynamic mic has absolutely no self noise)
FTFY

Quote:
and although it actually has more of high mid boost frequency response than say the the AT 2020 It can indeed "sit in the mix" But it should be noted that "sit in the mix" actually translates to move back in the sound field ....
Mmm, I don't think it does.
__________________
Give a man a fishing rod... and he's got the makings of a rudimentary banjo.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-24-2022, 02:19 PM
KevWind's Avatar
KevWind KevWind is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Edge of Wilderness Wyoming
Posts: 19,883
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shufflebeat View Post
That's not an nt1, this is an nt1:

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/rode-nt1

(The Sweetwater one is the nt1a, which is a different beastie altogether)
Opps you are correct my mistake so the NT1 with shock mount and pop screen is $228.22 (odd pricing) at Sweetwater https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...and-pop-filter



Quote:
FTFY
I don't know what that means.. But please don't edit and rewrite my words and them leave them as being my quote.. If you want to adjust or further qualify what said (which is fine) ,,, then quote me and then outside of quote make your statement Because not only can it contribute to confusion as to who said what, it is also just bad forum form ..

But in terms of self noise while it is true a dynamic mic has virtually no self noise, it is true however their noise will be effected the mic pre ..

From the Neumann web site ::

Quote:
Neumann :: "Self-noise is rarely specified for dynamic microphones. That’s because their noise performance is largely dependent on the microphone preamp used. As a rule of thumb: Dynamic microphones on an ultra-low noise preamp reach self-noise figures of about 18 dB-A."
.Now I myself am wondering if that 18 dB-A is a misprint because I wouid think it is more like 8 dB on a clean pre




Quote:
Mmm, I don't think it does.
Interesting . Personally I don't see how it can mean anything other than to sit back into the mix

To my mind there are basically three positions in the front to back sound field
#1 behind the main mix, usually more subtle background or interest elements

# 2 in the main mix (often the position of rhythm section) ( and the position of what I understand the term "sit in the mix" to mean)

#3 forward of the main mix often vocals or lead melodic riffs, or any featured element .

So I was referring to "sit in the mix" as it being back into the main mix as compared to any forward element
of course that is just my understanding as always YMMV
__________________
Enjoy the Journey.... Kev...

KevWind at Soundcloud

KevWind at YouYube
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...EZxkPKyieOTgRD

System :
Studio system Avid Carbon interface , PT Ultimate 2023.12 -Mid 2020 iMac 27" 3.8GHz 8-core i7 10th Gen ,, Ventura 13.2.1

Mobile MBP M1 Pro , PT Ultimate 2023.12 Ventura 12.2.1

Last edited by KevWind; 11-24-2022 at 02:47 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-24-2022, 03:51 PM
shufflebeat shufflebeat is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 1,684
Default

Fair enough, no offence intended.

FTFY stands for "fixed that for you" and has an implicit light-hearted bent to it, which obviously doesn't come across if you're not familiar with the term. It doesn't really work if I comment outside the quote and the bolding of the script makes it very clear what the comment refers to.

I'm afraid you won't hold back such terms by objecting to them - but I take your general point.

Dynamic mics do not generate self noise like condensers, which have integrated preamps, hence the need for phantom power, some of which are akin to pink noise machines. For dynamics in the world of music, as opposed to academic discussion self-noise is negligible in the true sense of the word.

"Sitting in the mix" is as important (if not more so) for a close-up, exposed element of the arrangement as anything "back in the room" as it shouldn't sound like it has been super-imposed over an existing background.

One of the best features of the '57 is it's midrange character which can be surprisingly complex in a vocal (particularly harmonies) or acoustic guitar track. With cheap condensers this is sometimes lacking or overwhelmed by a clash-y presence peak (often on the initial transient) which attracts the initial attention but is fatiguing after a while.
__________________
Give a man a fishing rod... and he's got the makings of a rudimentary banjo.

Last edited by shufflebeat; 11-24-2022 at 04:09 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-25-2022, 07:39 AM
KevWind's Avatar
KevWind KevWind is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Edge of Wilderness Wyoming
Posts: 19,883
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shufflebeat View Post
Fair enough, no offence intended.

FTFY stands for "fixed that for you" and has an implicit light-hearted bent to it, which obviously doesn't come across if you're not familiar with the term. It doesn't really work if I comment outside the quote and the bolding of the script makes it very clear what the comment refers to.

I'm afraid you won't hold back such terms by objecting to them - but I take your general point.
Ah yes I was not familiar with the acronym and now see its purpose here is not offensive

Quote:
Dynamic mics do not generate self noise like condensers, which have integrated preamps, hence the need for phantom power, some of which are akin to pink noise machines. For dynamics in the world of music, as opposed to academic discussion self-noise is negligible in the true sense of the word.

"Sitting in the mix" is as important (if not more so) for a close-up, exposed element of the arrangement as anything "back in the room" as it shouldn't sound like it has been super-imposed over an existing background.

One of the best features of the '57 is it's midrange character which can be surprisingly complex in a vocal (particularly harmonies) or acoustic guitar track. With cheap condensers this is sometimes lacking or overwhelmed by a clash-y presence peak (often on the initial transient) which attracts the initial attention but is fatiguing after a while.
. Interesting take on "sitting" and I do see how it could apply I guess I have just heard the term used in association with things like applying compression to tame something with a wide dynamic range to "fit in" with the rest of the mix I suppose like many engineering phrases there is some inherent ambiguity of personal perspective -- sall good
__________________
Enjoy the Journey.... Kev...

KevWind at Soundcloud

KevWind at YouYube
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...EZxkPKyieOTgRD

System :
Studio system Avid Carbon interface , PT Ultimate 2023.12 -Mid 2020 iMac 27" 3.8GHz 8-core i7 10th Gen ,, Ventura 13.2.1

Mobile MBP M1 Pro , PT Ultimate 2023.12 Ventura 12.2.1

Last edited by KevWind; 11-25-2022 at 08:10 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-25-2022, 12:55 PM
shufflebeat shufflebeat is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 1,684
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
...sall good
As always.

Appreciate the positive approach to discussion.
__________________
Give a man a fishing rod... and he's got the makings of a rudimentary banjo.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-26-2022, 11:28 AM
TBman's Avatar
TBman TBman is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 35,829
Default

Watch the "self noise" spec of a microphone. Wrong or right, I always try to get the lowest I can find.
__________________
Barry

Sad Moments {Marianne Vedral cover}:


My SoundCloud page

Some steel strings, some nylon.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-26-2022, 11:50 AM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,961
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TBman View Post
Watch the "self noise" spec of a microphone. Wrong or right, I always try to get the lowest I can find.
While an important spec, it shouldn't be the primary reason for choosing a mic. You want a mic that sounds best on the source you're recording. That may not be the mic with the lowest self-noise.
__________________
Jim
2023 Iris ND-200 maple/adi
2017 Circle Strings 00 bastogne walnut/sinker redwood
2015 Circle Strings Parlor shedua/western red cedar
2009 Bamburg JSB Signature Baritone macassar ebony/carpathian spruce
2004 Taylor XXX-RS indian rosewood/sitka spruce
1988 Martin D-16 mahogany/sitka spruce

along with some electrics, zouks, dulcimers, and banjos.

YouTube
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > RECORD

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:28 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=