Tabs dependence .

[Travelpicker]

Originally Posted by RichardN

Second point I wanted to make.

Someone on AGF once pointed out that if you work on a piece one or two measures at a time and then look at your left hand while you're doing it, you'll do better at memorizing the piece.

It works.

Even if for a few days , it's working for me

[Andyrondack]

Originally Posted by Mandobart

If I figure out a tune by ear, it's pretty much locked into my brain's hard drive.

That's what I find but then I can imagine the tune or at least the first few bars in my head before playing it and that refreshes the memory.

Complete fingerstlyle arrangements are more complex and not so easy to imagine the sound of component parts played near simultaneously as they are in a complete arrangement.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by rllink

I'm sure not going to argue with a neuroscientist, but I'm 72 years old and I take a lesson every other week. Each lesson my instructor gives me a song to work on for the next two weeks. It is in the form of your basic lyrics and chords on a piece of paper. I make notes on it during the lesson. After two weeks of working on the song, I can pretty much play it and know the words without looking at the cheat sheet. So it appears that the two parts of my brain at least are working together. Maybe I need to be studied by a neuroscientist. Or maybe I'm just doing something different.

One thing, if I don't use it, I lose it. I don't retain songs that I've learned and memorized if I'm not playing them regularly.

Speaking as 73-year-old, I agree.

There's a spectrum, of course. The more you play a song - and the longer you've known it - the more embedded it is. I can remember tunes I learned 50 years ago (better than ones I learned last week!) - but only the ones I've played fairly often since. I don't have to play them very often, it's more like just topping up. But any I haven't played in years (or decades), they've more or less gone. Not completely, but very little is left in my memory.

As the others are saying, it's nothing to do with reading, either from notation or tab. It's a three-way thing: Fingers, ears, eyes (on the fretboard). Finger memory and aural memory together are the main two, but looking at the fretboard while learning aids the finger memory: visual as well as kinaesthetic.
I mean, obviously we look at the fretboard while learning a tune anyway! But there is a view that we need to wean ourselves off that ASAP, and I don't entirely agree. If you can play a tune perfectly while not looking, that's great. But one shouldn't be ashamed of occasionally having to check position - it can help confirm finger memory, even subconsciously.

[TBman]

I ordered the Brainjo book.

I can play entire tunes without looking at my fretting hand (I don't consider a tune really learned until I can), but I usually can only play small sections from memory.

I'll see if I can learn something from the book to apply to my reality.

[dnf777]

I've really enjoyed following this thread, as it is very near and dear to my plight as well! Ive noticed that if I do ANYTHING other than rely on written lyrics or tabs, my memorization is MUCH easier and better. Its clear that using the "crutch" of written form, you bypass or completely shut down whatever mechanism is in play to write memory to that squishy hard drive between the ears.

There are clearly different mechanisms and locations for storing (and retrieving) data, and different types data. Clearly, rote memorization of lyrics is different from musical notation. I remember in medical school, when faced with memorizing mountains of information, some of my classmates would put information to tune, and you could see them during exams tapping or humming their recollections.

I've discovered, at least for me, that noodling through and figuring out chords on my own generally auto-writes them to memory, with relatively easy recall. Watching and listening to someone play, and gathering the chords/lyrics works also. Reading sheet music/tabs works only while looking at them. As soon as I put them away, so goes the memory.

And Doug Y, thanks for the reference to "Brainjo". A robot somewhere at an Amazon warehouse is slapping a shipping label on one for me

[Joe Beamish]

^ Astute observation!

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by TBman

I'll see if I can learn something from the book to apply to my reality.

Just don't let him convince you to play banjo :-)

[Andyrondack]

I read the e version some time ago and the most significant take away for me was learning about the role of paying attention to laying down new neural networks, once an activity becomes automatic and our minds start drifting we are not learning anything but just rolling on an autopilot track laid down in the mind when we were alert, and most of us can only remain alert for around 20 minutes at a time.
Take breaks, vary the practice frequently.
There was something in a AG magazine article about memorizing new pieces, the contributor got her method from a US Army LP record aimed at teaching people to touch type, she wrote that every 15mins or so there was an instruction to take a 10 minute break, by the time she got to the end of the record she could type.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Andyrondack

I read the e version some time ago and the most significant take away for me was learning about the role of paying attention to laying down new neural networks,

Yep, that's the one-sentence summary :-) I enjoyed a lot of the details and tips along the way, but just recognizing that when practicing, you're actually "programming" your neural computer changed the way I think about things. Of course, it's also interesting that 'm pretty sure I already knew that... But sometimes you forget and need to be reminded, or have it explained in a different way.

I also found his ideas about metronomes interesting (and he's not using it to keep time!)

[jwing]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

...I also found his ideas about metronomes interesting (and he's not using it to keep time!)

From the book: "...a greater - and often neglected - purpose of the metronome is as a test for automaticity."

It's an interesting idea worthy of consideration. So far, I would not agree that a "test for automaticity" is the most important purpose of the metronome. (Note: Author Turknett did not claim that it is.) For me, the metronome pulls me toward automaticity. I start playing to a metronome long before a tune is automatic for me. My progress is faster if I start using a metronome at a slow tempo right after the first time that I have played through the first phrase of the tune. I then endeavor to master the mechanics before I increase the tempo. I iterate until I'm close to automaticity. That quality is rare and fleeting in my playing. Achieving automatcity more reliably is my current practice priority. I'm interested to see how my practice evolves as I absorb Turknett's ideas.

[dnf777]

Originally Posted by jwing

From the book: "...a greater - and often neglected - purpose of the metronome is as a test for automaticity."

It's an interesting idea worthy of consideration. So far, I would not agree that a "test for automaticity" is the most important purpose of the metronome. (Note: Author Turknett did not claim that it is.) For me, the metronome pulls me toward automaticity. I start playing to a metronome long before a tune is automatic for me. My progress is faster if I start using a metronome at a slow tempo right after the first time that I have played through the first phrase of the tune. I then endeavor to master the mechanics before I increase the tempo. I iterate until I'm close to automaticity. That quality is rare and fleeting in my playing. Achieving automatcity more reliably is my current practice priority. I'm interested to see how my practice evolves as I absorb Turknett's ideas.

I like the idea, but just can't find a metronome that isn't faulty. they all slow down as the song progresses.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Just don't let him convince you to play banjo :-)

I had rented a banjo for a week when I was 20 and loved it, however my family wanted to strangle me (I played it relentlessly) so...... I didn't buy one

[Travelpicker]

... just a maybe obvious thing . I've noticed that when I play the songs in open D (for me , a beautiful alternate tuning and the only real one I use , leaving aside dropped D) , I'm not so dependent on the tabs as the standard tuning . I suppose because that songs are less 'complex' , at least
as regards the chords and the positions of the hand that works on the neck .

[rick-slo]

Getting back to the OP's thread title there is a pretty big difference between being dependent on tabs versus as a partial aide (which varies case by case).

[Joe Beamish]

The more you know about your fretboard (as in memorizing the note names), the circle of fifths, and how to transpose chord progressions, the more you’ll end up using TABS occasionally as just another tool, instead of “relying” on them.