Finding new, refreshing chord progressions

[Monsum]

I'm not a beginner guitarist but I feel like I'm often stuck with the same unoriginal, cliche chord progressions.
How do you stay away from boring repetitions of I, iii, IV and V chords?
All ideas, suggestions, techniques are welcome.

[Pitar]

The familiar lures a person away from the unknown challenges awaiting on the fret board. This is up to you to figure out. What I might suggest you probably already know, being a somewhat seasoned player by your own admission. The music you might consider fresh is there waiting for you to take the leap and find it.

[mattbn73]

Are you talking about for songwriting or something?

Are you playing actual TUNES as part of learning the instrument?

[stanron]

You could try investigating patterns of intervals between chords. The simplest is probably a series of diatonic fourths. In the key of C this gets you

|C - - - |F- - - | B dim (you can use G7 instead) | Em - - - |Am - - - |Dm - - - |G7 - - - |C- - - |

Eight bars beginning and ending on C with a fourth interval between the chords. The same sequence beginning and ending on Am is worth trying. You might want to change the Em to E7 if you start and end on Am.

[agfsteve]

Consider making more mistakes (or any mistakes if you're really good). It only takes one misplaced finger, or playing the right chord at the wrong fret, and you're off on a whole new adventure.

[rick-slo]

Noodling around for ideas I like to play jazzy chords and to often
sequence chromatically. Like below where I start off with a
chromatic run up on the second string.

First chord to last:
5-x-6-6-5-x Amaj7
5-x-5-6-6-x A+7
x-5-7-6-7-x Dmaj7
6-x-6-7-8-x Bb13
5-x-6-6-5-x Amaj7
5-x-5-6-6-x A+7
x-5-7-6-7-x Dmaj7
6-x-6-7-8-x Bb13
5-x-6-6-5-x Amaj7
2-x-2-2-2-x F#m7
1-x-1-1-1-x Fm7
0-x-x-1-1-3 G#maj7/E
x-0-x-1-2-0 Amaj7
x-0-2-1-2-x Amaj7
1-x-0-2-1-x F6
0-x-0-1-0-x E7

[jseth]

Trying to recall the "Modern Compositional Guidelines" that were told to me by a Berklee graduate, back in the 70's...

1) Use a short form

2) Avoid/delay going to the I maj chord

3) Establish a rhythmic/melodic motif and use that within several different keys

Pretty sure there were a couple others, but I don't remember them now...

I used to have this crazy, huge chord book - like "2400 Guitar Chords" by F. Chierci or some such. Now, I didn't know exactly which chords went with which, nor did I have any conscious sense of Chord Theory...

But, a lot of times, I'd find a chord that I thought was very cool sounding, and then I'd use that form in a new song... I wrote dozens of songs that way, back when I was first starting out...

Keep looking, you'll find new inspiration...

[Monsum]

Originally Posted by mattbn73

Are you talking about for songwriting or something?

Are you playing actual TUNES as part of learning the instrument?

I should've been clearer in my first post.
Let me start with some background info. I've been playing for about 30 years and learnt hundreds and hundreds of tunes. I don't remember most of them but even if I did I wouldn't want to play others' songs only. I'd like to come up with something new and mine. When I started playing the guitar (it was mainly an electric one) I learnt scales and a lot of licks and runs. This helped me to be able to improvise when soloing. And now I'd like to achieve the same kind of freedom and creativity when playing a rhythm guitar.
Yes, you can call it songwriting but it's not just that.

[Monsum]

Originally Posted by stanron

You could try investigating patterns of intervals between chords. The simplest is probably a series of diatonic fourths. In the key of C this gets you

|C - - - |F- - - | B dim (you can use G7 instead) | Em - - - |Am - - - |Dm - - - |G7 - - - |C- - - |

Eight bars beginning and ending on C with a fourth interval between the chords. The same sequence beginning and ending on Am is worth trying. You might want to change the Em to E7 if you start and end on Am.

Thanks stanton, it's a very nice progression and yes, I figured out the interval between the consecutive chords. It's fun to replace some of these chords with other ones.

[Monsum]

Originally Posted by agfsteve

Consider making more mistakes (or any mistakes if you're really good). It only takes one misplaced finger, or playing the right chord at the wrong fret, and you're off on a whole new adventure.

Good advice. I'm forcing myself not to play the first chord which comes to my mind but play something that I would never do and see how it sounds. 'These mistakes' sometimes bring pleasing results.

[Monsum]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Noodling around for ideas I like to play jazzy chords and to often
sequence chromatically. Like below where I start off with a
chromatic run up on the second string.

First chord to last:
5-x-6-6-5-x Amaj7
5-x-5-6-6-x A+7
x-5-7-6-7-x Dmaj7
6-x-6-7-8-x Bb13
5-x-6-6-5-x Amaj7
5-x-5-6-6-x A+7
x-5-7-6-7-x Dmaj7
6-x-6-7-8-x Bb13
5-x-6-6-5-x Amaj7
2-x-2-2-2-x F#m7
1-x-1-1-1-x Fm7
0-x-x-1-1-3 G#maj7/E
x-0-x-1-2-0 Amaj7
x-0-2-1-2-x Amaj7
1-x-0-2-1-x F6
0-x-0-1-0-x E7

I like jazzy chords too. I don't want to go 'full jazz' route though. I'll try the above chords and see what I can make out of them. Thanks.

[Monsum]

Originally Posted by jseth

1) Use a short form

2) Avoid/delay going to the I maj chord

3) Establish a rhythmic/melodic motif and use that within several different keys

Thanks jseth. I don't know what a short form is (number 1.).
But number 2) is useful and 3) as well - I realized that thinking in terms of a leading melody helps to find a next chord which sometimes turns out to be a simple one but with added extra note to emphasise the melody.

Originally Posted by jseth

But, a lot of times, I'd find a chord that I thought was very cool sounding, and then I'd use that form in a new song...

That's what I do too.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by Monsum

I'm not a beginner guitarist but I feel like I'm often stuck with the same unoriginal, cliche chord progressions.
How do you stay away from boring repetitions of I, iii, IV and V chords?
All ideas, suggestions, techniques are welcome.

To attempt to sum up the various options (the most common practices at least):

1. Diatonic harmony. This is basically the stuff you're bored with (or think you are...) That's all the chords available from one scale (major or minor, or maybe a mode.) You mention "I, iii, IV and V", but vi would be a much more common fourth chord than iii. Still, there is always the ii chord, and (if you're feeling adventurous) the vii chord, although most people use that as part of the V7 chord. (Bdim in C major is just a rootless G7, so why not use G7? With a B bass of you want. )

1a. Tired of the same old triads? Add diatonic 7ths, try various "sus" or "add" variants. Essentially, just try adding any other scale note to any of the chords - or omitting notes - see how it sounds.

2. Secondary dominants (jazz thing, basically). As you may know, a key has a primary dominant, the V chord. But all the other chords (except vii) can have their own major V chord too. In C major, you can use all these:
D - goes to G;
A - goes to Dm;
E - goes to Am;
B - goes to Em;
C7 - goes to F.
(Adding the Bb to C is necessary to change it from "I" to "V/IV", dominant of the IV chord. The others can have 7ths too, but don't need them.)
It's not only a jazz thing, btw. You get V/V (D in key of C) in country music, and in rock sometimes when it wants that country effect (eg, the A major chord in Honky Tony Women, leading to D in key of G).
And it's quite common to use a major III chord to go to IV instead of vi (check Radiohead's 'Creep" among others).
Sometimes these chords can be used to change key - i.e., to make their target chord sound like a new tonic, a new I. See "modulation" below.

3. Borrowed chords, aka mode mixture, or modal interchange (mostly a rock thing). Essentially this means, when in a major key, you can use chords from the parallel minor, to give a "darkening", or "heavier" effect. So in C major, try all these:
Bb (bVII)
Eb (bIII)
Ab (bVI)
Fm (iv, minor IV)
Unlike secondary dominants, these don't have a preferred direction to go in, although there are (as usual) common practices, such as (still in key of C):
Bb > F > C
Ab > Bb > C
F > Fm > C

4. Modulation - changing key in the middle of a song. This can be for a different section of the song (eg chorus or bridge), from where you'd return to the first key; or you can just repeat the same progression(s) in a new key, usually for the rest of the song.
Common key changes:
(a) major to parallel minor, or vice versa. E.g., C to C minor (and back).
(b) major to relative minor, or vice versa. C to Am (and back). This can be quite subtle, and is achieved by using E or E7 to lead to Am - and then staying in Am for a bit to show the E wasn't just a secondary dominant (see above). You'd then use G7 to get back to C.
(c) up a 4th or down a 4th. I.e., to a "close" key (only one note changes). E.g. C major to F or G major.
You can actually change to any key you want, just by inserting the V7 of the key key anywhere, ideally the ii-V of the new key. So, if for some strange reason you wanted to modulate from C major to F# major, you'd insert G#m7-C#7 at some point, which "prepares" the modulation (your ears know what is about happen).
Then again, many key changes in rock just slam straight into the new key ("direct modulation"). Here's one of my favourites - listen out at 0:49: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiDNlCyHp0I They're in F#, and the key changes to A. The return to F# is prepared, however. At 1:23 it goes to G# then C# (both major chords), and F# is the inevitable conclusion of that.

5. Modes. Lots of online BS about them! At its simplest, it means just taking one chord - or maybe a pair of alternating chords from the same scale - and basing a whole song on it. Forget about chord changes and chord movements - even the whole idea of a "key" - and just focus on the quality/mood of that one chord and how the scale sounds over it. (To be fair, most modal tunes do use more than one chord; but they'll still spend a hell of a lot of time on one chord before changing.)

[mattbn73]

Originally Posted by Monsum

I should've been clearer in my first post.
Let me start with some background info. I've been playing for about 30 years and learnt hundreds and hundreds of tunes. I don't remember most of them but even if I did I wouldn't want to play others' songs only. I'd like to come up with something new and mine. When I started playing the guitar (it was mainly an electric one) I learnt scales and a lot of licks and runs. This helped me to be able to improvise when soloing. And now I'd like to achieve the same kind of freedom and creativity when playing a rhythm guitar.
Yes, you can call it songwriting but it's not just that.

JohnPR's post is great as always.

Couple of thoughts. If you want to learn new sounds , it's important to understand more fully the music you already like, rather than reinventing the wheel . Learn to do Roman numeral analysis on every tune you already know. Back in the day, we had to basically do all this by hand etc., but I'm sure now you can just plug things into some online tool which converts progressions etc. Rather than reinventing the wheel, it would be helpful to "know the numbers" for tunes you actually LIKE, or at least sections of tunes etc.

At the same time, give more "meaning" to these seemingly arbitrary numbers by converting those numbers to a song title, memory, or emotion. So an "Everybody Hurts" bridge means something more in your memory than simply the "numbers" present in that progression. Jazz players use song titles to reference progressions that way. So, the "honeysuckle Bridge" is a thing or "rhythm changes" for an "I got rhythm" bridge.

Also, play close attention to harmonic rhythm when you do this. Very often there are simple patterns, like ....the chorus has chords which are four beats long , while the verse has two- beat changes. When you're unaware of harmonic rhythm, very often it's the thing you're hearing as being "interesting" without knowing it . Sometimes the changes are much simpler than we realize.

In terms of modal interchange, start with most closely related chords first, and then kind of branch out. One way of thinking about it is basically playing in the "key of the chord" for the major chords in your progression. Don't do all at once or anything. Pick one, and just experiment with that one sound first.

So, in the key of G, you have G C and D. Borrow the one major chord from the key of C not already present . That gives you F. Relative minor is D minor. Play them especially against the related C Chord. Do the same with D. Gives you A and F#m. Again, try to find these in actual tunes.

Begin to think about the fact that basically anytime you find a chord pattern which works in a "key" , you can very often use that chord pattern over other occurrences of the CHORD as well. So, C MAJOR KEY chord patterns work at a basic level over a C CHORD , even in the key of G etc.

For example it's very common to play the IV of major chords, kind of like a suspension. So, in G, you can replace a simple C chord with a C-F-C, even though there isn't an F chord in G. This is where harmonic rhythm becomes really important. Almost anything works if the harmonic rhythm is quicker. For more of a gospel sound do the same thing with the II chord. C-Dm-C...

When you start looking at harmonic rhythm that way, you are bridging the gap between what is actual HARMONY of the tune and simple harmonic FILLS which give you your own personal style, feel, and "voice" over existing music etc.

[beninma]

You could work on those same old progressions but start adding in inversions and triads and such up and down the neck.

There are a lot of different ways to play I-ii-IV-V.

I've been into the whole thing with hammering on/pulling off notes in my chords lately too, adding/removing a 6th/7th/9th/whatever.