Recording Taylor

[tvolhein]

I would like some opinions.

Context:
I have a Larrivee D03. Nice guitar. I have a Baggs Dual Source p/u on it. I also have a Taylor 814 with stock Taylor electronics. Both perform well live through a DTAR Solstice DI, into an UltraSound amp.

However, for recording, when I go through the DI into my system, the Larrivee with the Baggs kicks the Taylor’s butt. The Larrivee gets this great biting contemporary sound that I love. The Taylor sounds boxy or something. I have messed with the Taylor pick up system for a couple of years, trying to get a good recorded sound, and just can’t do it. I am thinking of getting a Baggs installed on my Taylor.

Questions:
1)
What do you think of my idea of putting a Baggs on the Taylor?

2)
Has anyone come up with a direct recorded sound that they love using the Taylor electronics?


Thanks,

Tom

[Nelson]

Originally Posted by tvolhein

I would like some opinions.

Context:
I have a Larrivee D03. Nice guitar. I have a Baggs Dual Source p/u on it. I also have a Taylor 814 with stock Taylor electronics. Both perform well live through a DTAR Solstice DI, into an UltraSound amp.

However, for recording, when I go through the DI into my system, the Larrivee with the Baggs kicks the Taylor’s butt. The Larrivee gets this great biting contemporary sound that I love. The Taylor sounds boxy or something. I have messed with the Taylor pick up system for a couple of years, trying to get a good recorded sound, and just can’t do it. I am thinking of getting a Baggs installed on my Taylor.

Questions:
1)
What do you think of my idea of putting a Baggs on the Taylor?

2)
Has anyone come up with a direct recorded sound that they love using the Taylor electronics?


Thanks,

Tom

My Taylor 514ce had the Fishman system in it. I swapped it out for an L.R. Baggs Element Onboard. The preamp drops right into where the Fishman Barndoor preamp was and even uses the same screw holes. Baggs designed this as a direct retro-fit to the Fishman. I like it much better than the Fishman. Very warm sounding and when it goes through my Ultrasound AG50DS2 or my DI Plus it really sounds excellent, even when recording.

The iMix onboard would be another good choice, blending the Element with the iBeam. The preamp is a direct re-trofit just like the Element preamp. Check out the LR Baggs site to read the details of each.

[tvolhein]

Thanks, Nelson

[ljguitar]

Hi Tom...
Have you considered the option of not changing the pickups and then recording with mics intsead of the internal pickup rig?

Are you using effects etc that have to be captured when recording? Guitars sound much more natural and like themselves when recorded with mics.

[FingerPlucked]

That's what I'm thinking as well. I usually set up two mics to record in stereo. I'm thinking about also running a line in from my ES on my next recording to see if it adds anything that I might want to mix in. I'm not expecting to use it, but since I can record 4 tracks at a time, I figure it can't hurt to have it recorded and available as a possibility.

[tvolhein]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi Tom...
Have you considered the option of not changing the pickups and then recording with mics intsead of the internal pickup rig?

Are you using effects etc that have to be captured when recording? Guitars sound much more natural and like themselves when recorded with mics.

Larry,

I have tried at least a dozen mic set ups and none (by itself) has sounded like I want.

What I am doing now is an x/y with two MXL 603's at the twelfth fret as a double track for the DI. It adds some "natural" sound to the pick up. But mics alone don't do it.

I assume that there is a mic, set up, acoustical treatment, etc that would work. But I haven't found it.

t

[Vocalpoint]

Originally Posted by tvolhein

The Taylor sounds boxy or something. I have messed with the Taylor pick up system for a couple of years, trying to get a good recorded sound, and just can’t do it. I am thinking of getting a Baggs installed on my Taylor.

Well - I am certainly not the ear of experience - I just got my first Taylor on Feb 3. It's a unbelivable 414ce-SL with KOA. And I hear ya on the "boxiness" - plugging this guitar's ES straight into my board was a disappointing experience. Flat, lifeless and dull...no matter what the controls were set to. After some experimentation and study - I discovered that this guitar puts out a balanced low level mic signal - so a preamp is key to getting anything usable - especially for recording. I tried the new ToneBone PZ-Pre to no avail - it only accepts an unbalanced connection and sounded like crap. So I decided to bite the bullet and get the real deal - the Taylor K4.

WHOA! I put this unit into the studio this weekend - and I have to concur with others comments - this is the most unbelievable little box I have ever plugged a guitar into.

While certainly and specifically geared to the Taylor Expression System - it completely brings the warm and wonderful tone of my 414 right into the board at the proper quiet balanced level. I added a Rode NT5 condenser into the mix and recorded all weekend. I am stunned - I cannot believe it's me playing. All the hype on the K4 is absolutely true.

Originally Posted by tvolhein

1) What do you think of my idea of putting a Baggs on the Taylor?

Weight the cost factor to switch everything out vs the cost of a K4. Mind you - you didn't specify if your 814 has the Expression System or not.

Originally Posted by tvolhein

2) Has anyone come up with a direct recorded sound that they love using the Taylor electronics?

See above. My direct sound is a thing of beauty - plus with the ultimate tone shaping on the K4 - boxiness is not even an issue. It's when I blend the direct and a condenser close mic that things really go to the next level.

Cheers!

VP

[DenverSteve]

If the Larrivee does a great job, why not just use it for your recording?

[tvolhein]

Originally Posted by PastorSteve

If the Larrivee does a great job, why not just use it for your recording?

This is what I am doing right now. The issue for me is the Taylor sounds inferior to the Larrivee into the board. The signal chains are identical, except for the pick up. Therefore, it seems to me that I am not doing my Taylor justice.

Also, I would like two different, and excellent, guitar sounds for the studio. The Larrivee is a dread, and the Taylor a grand auditorium.

I am always searching for the best sound possible in the studio.

Tom

[tvolhein]

Originally Posted by Vocalpoint

Weight the cost factor to switch everything out vs the cost of a K4. Mind you - you didn't specify if your 814 has the Expression System or not.
VP

I will be interested in the cost difference between the K4 and the Baggs Dual source. It would be interesting to have two excellent, yet distinctly different sounds. I would want to try out the K4 before buying.

And yes, it is the Expression system on the 814.

Tom

[Vocalpoint]

Originally Posted by tvolhein

I would want to try out the K4 before buying.

That's what I did. Mind you - it took only about 8 minutes for me to whip out the credit card and haul it home. I couldn't believe the sound at the store - which quickly turned into a "next level" kinda thing once I got the K4 connected up to my Nuendo rig with an additional Rode NT5 micing my 414into the mix.

On playback - I am still having a hard time believing it's me playing an acoustic guitar. I have never heard anything like it - except obviously on a very well recorded commercial CD...

[norcal]

I have similar pickups in both of my guitars; iMix in my R. Taylor and the ES in my 614ce. I like the modern and edgy sound of the iMix but the ES takes a bit of tone tweaking to get something similar or at least more natural sounding. The K4 is a good choice but when it comes down to it, the ES has that magnetic pickup underneath the fretboard. The pickup will always have a pseudo electric/acoustic magnetic hum to it, especially on the B and E strings. The K4 can help cut the midrange and add a little tone, but I would do as a few other have suggested... add a Shure SM57 or a similar mic and record in stereo. I think this would be a simple solution to home recording and would sound more natural than the ES alone. Otherwise, retrofit in an iMix and be done with it

[Jugan]

How does that Acoustimax work for you? I like it, but still can't get my ES too sound warm enough thru a house PA! Any suggestions?