The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Acoustic Amplification

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 06-15-2019, 11:40 PM
guitargabor's Avatar
guitargabor guitargabor is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pac NW
Posts: 1,650
Default Bose S1- your experience appreciated..

I have owned a Bose S1 for about 3 months now.It replaces an AER compact 60.Bought the Bose for the portability, versatility (blue tooth) and the sound.

Yesterday played an outdoor farmers market which was adjacent to a fairly busy street. There were many noisy trucks and other vehicles passing by.

I had to increase the volume past the 1/2 dial on each channel up to about 65%.Encountered major(bass) feedback issues on the guitar channel that was very bothersome.

There is no feedback at the 50% (mid dial) level.

Prior to the gig,I dialed in the individual special guitar and mic settings for each channel.

My set up is a simple one using an acoustic guitar with an active B Band PU that has only volume control.

Today I discovered that the S1 sounds much better with the both the mic and guitar channels in the "off" position.The amp plays louder too with just very slight distortion and minimal feedback from the lower E and A strings.

Anyone else have this issue?

For those of you who own an S1,what is your specific set up.i.e. pick up, other preamp etc.

Any suggestions to improve the sound when the situation requires more volume?

Add another S1?,add a modest PA amp like the Yamaha DBR active or QSC?A pre amp box?

Thanks,

Gabe
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-16-2019, 04:09 AM
Marty C Marty C is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 1,223
Default

Good Morning Gabe and Happy Father’s Day,
I haven’t used the S1 as a stand alone. I use several different ways.

1- With a TC Helicon Play Acoustic. This is an effects box for vocal and guitar. Works very well. There are several recent post here concerning the set up. I have configured a battery set up for this so my complete set up is battery powered. The Play Acoustic does have a notch filter which might help with your feedback issue. I use no tonematch with this set up.

2- I use a Behringer 1002B mixer which can be battery powered. I use this if I need additional inputs. It also gives me more eq (bass, mid and treble), which might help you with the feedback. I like using the tonematch for the vocal only and can get a good guitar sound with tonematch off. I run the 1002B by panning all vocal channels to the left and send the left main out to channel 1 where I have the tonematch set to “mic”. I run all guitar channels panned right and run the right main out to channel two - where the tonematch is set to “off”.

Actually the Behringer unit works very well. I can make simple adjustments last minute and it’s only about $100.

Hope this helps some. I really like this Bose unit.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-16-2019, 06:21 AM
Methos1979's Avatar
Methos1979 Methos1979 is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Seacoast, NH
Posts: 8,070
Default

You will need to have some sort of external EQ system to dial out the lows a bit more. I'm assuming you dialed the lows all the way down when you ran into the feedback issue when turning up.

I have used the S1 in just about every possible way, every position, every type of venue, with and without external preamp and EQ. I remember only once when I was first testing the S1 outside that I ran into what you ran into as I was playing it really loud with the volume dialed up past half, more like 3/4 or higher. I found I had to dial back the lows (bass) ALL the way out to tame the feedback. But that was also with signal preamped so it was already hotter.

For me, if I'm playing through a preamp or mixer, I also find that the S1 sounds best with the ToneMatch switches set to off. If I'm going straight in then I find the ToneMatch is best set to vocals for both vocals and guitar. We were practicing outside yesterday with the S1 in it's simplest form, just my guitar (Emerald X10 with active pickup, onboard volume and tone control) and my wife's mic. We had both ToneMatch switches set to mic/vocal and we were able to dial up to 3/4 and got a great, relatively loud sound with no distortion.

One thing you don't mention is what position you were using the Bose S1 in when you encountered the feedback. Pole, flat, or tilt back? I have found that the tilt back position is the most prone to low-end feedback but I usually only notice that indoors on hardwood floors. Try different positioning as well. Move yourself or the S1 to a different area. I'm always surprised when practicing inside at loud volumes just how sensitive feedback is to position. Just a step in a certain direction can increase or decrease feedback, so try that.

We recently just went to a second Bose S1 which we used as both a monitor or a second FOH depending on the situation. We had a QSC k8.2 as backup for when we needed more power but in the end we never used it and decided that a second S1 would be a much better addition and it indeed is. I primarily used an Emerald X10 with a Ghost bridge pickup systems these days and this is very less sensitive to feedback than my other Emeralds with K&K's but I wouldn't think a B-Band which is a UST would be sensitive either. Try decreasing your onboard volume when you increase the S1 and dial out the bass lows to nothing on the S1. Even with it dialed all the way out you'll still hear plenty of lows when the volume is cranked.

A small preamp or mixer would be very helpful. I typically go one of three ways. With my X10 we use an EAE StompMix X6 digital mixer for 'full gigs' where we have two mics and my guitar and I need full EQ, notch, compression and effects control in a relatively small and battery operated package. For smaller gigs lately I just go with the X10 and one mic straight into the S1 but I always carry with me the tiny and yet extremely powerful and useful Headway EDM-1 preamp. Runs on battery and has full EQ and a sweepable high pass filter that they call an anti-feedback switch which dials out those troublesome lows. It works extremely well an both the EDM-1 and the X6 are serious pieces of quality high-end kit.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-16-2019, 09:46 AM
guitargabor's Avatar
guitargabor guitargabor is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pac NW
Posts: 1,650
Default

Thanks to both Marty and Methos!

to answer your questions-yes I decreased the bass to zero on the guitar channel .

I'll need to diminish the volume level of the B Band while increasing the guitar channel on the S1.

Sounds like an outboard pre amp may be useful.

What would you suggest in terms of something reasonable in cost?

Thanks,

Gabe
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-16-2019, 10:13 AM
lkingston lkingston is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Asheville North Carolina
Posts: 3,232
Default

The S1 microphone tonematch preset sounds the best of the three options for my Schertler AG6/S-mic pickup. In fact it sounds great. The thing is that when I run the line out from my Schertler Roy into the S1 flat with no Tonematch preset, holy cow, the sound is just gorgeous! It makes me think there must be something to this class A all analog thing after all!

My favorite guitar pedal style preamps are the Tech21 Sansamp ParaDI and the Q\Strip. Of these, I prefer the Q\Strip for acoustic guitar and ParaDI for jazz archtop. The sound from both of these is just magic! The ParaDI can make a jazzbox sound like it is going through a miked tube amp, and the Q\Strip has that same sort of ever so slightly saturated but still very clean sound as the Roy preamps.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-16-2019, 11:05 AM
RogerPease RogerPease is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 630
Default

The Behringer ADI21 is frequently mentioned here as very good for the money (~$30), but I have no personal experience.
Further ADI21 advice is to turn the blend control almost all the way up.

I have used the Fishman Platinum Stage and can say it’s a great little EQ problem solver.
Somewhat more $$ being $150 new. Sometimes you can find a clean used one on Reverb for closer to $100.

Either one would be good to have in your bag of tricks, to use only if you need to.

Cheers, _Roger
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-16-2019, 12:08 PM
DavidE DavidE is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 4,106
Default

I run with tonematch off for guitar and mic. Sounds best to me that way.

With my duo, I use a pair of S1s (can get quite loud) and my Bose T1 mixer on which I do use the specific tonematch settings. But I have to change the EQ even if using my L1M2.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-16-2019, 09:26 PM
varmonter varmonter is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: The heart of Saturday night..
Posts: 3,645
Default

Try a soundhole plug. Its your guitars resonant
frequency thats giving you issues. the low freq
sound drives the top and causes it to vibrate accentuating the problem
even more. You need to stop the sound from getting inside The guitar.
Common with acoustics at louder volumes.
also the s1 is only 40 watts. two will give you better coverage.
but two are not louder than one. perhaps you need an upgrade.?
See how we love to spend your money..

Last edited by varmonter; 06-16-2019 at 09:43 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-17-2019, 07:54 AM
dcopper dcopper is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: East Coast
Posts: 1,683
Default

I have 2 S1s and usually use both for FOH. A mixer or guitar preamp will be a good choice for you. Plenty of good advice above. I agree with Methos - the tilt back position causes the accelerometer to decrease bass output and sounds best to me for guitar. The problem for me is that when I play with my trio, I use speaker stands.

I have not had the problem you experienced but a mixer or better control of your low frequencies via a good guitar preamp will help. I use the Headway EDB2 which is a dual channel preamp- runs on batteries and fits in the guitar case. I can eq the guitar and/or vocals and it has plenty of control to eliminate what happened to your signal. Lots of options. I also use a ZED 10FX mixer with my trio and I think it greatly improves the vocals and gives plenty of control over the guitar with high Z inputs and low cut filters.

There are also times doing solo gigs where I just plug my K&K Taylors right in and plug in a mic and play. Simpler allows me to really concentrate on playing and dynamics. I continue to be impressed with the S1s and have been using them now over my AER 60/3 and QSC K8.

Keep a Swiss Army knife type preamp or mixer and you will be able to eliminate most if not all, venue problems.

Davidc
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-17-2019, 01:17 PM
meb meb is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 517
Default

[QUOTE=varmonter;6088389] also the s1 is only 40 watts. two will give you better coverage.
but two are not louder than one.

Please help me on this. Is this a Bose thing? Is this true for any 2 speakers?
I am puzzled. Thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06-17-2019, 01:45 PM
DavidE DavidE is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 4,106
Default

[QUOTE=meb;6088792]
Quote:
Originally Posted by varmonter View Post
also the s1 is only 40 watts. two will give you better coverage.
but two are not louder than one.

Please help me on this. Is this a Bose thing? Is this true for any 2 speakers?
I am puzzled. Thanks.
To me it's louder with two S1s.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-17-2019, 02:23 PM
Davis Webb Davis Webb is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,387
Default

I have never encountered this issue even in large venues. So it must be your positioning or guitar.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-17-2019, 07:28 PM
guitargabor's Avatar
guitargabor guitargabor is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pac NW
Posts: 1,650
Default

Thanks everyone for your recommendations!

I'm now a strictly solo act.Trying to keep my gear to a minimum.

So,I'll try to squeak the settings for next outdoor gig and see how things turn out....

Gabe
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 06-18-2019, 05:42 AM
Murphy Slaw Murphy Slaw is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Southern Illinois
Posts: 2,974
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davis Webb View Post
I have never encountered this issue even in large venues. So it must be your positioning or guitar.
I agree.

Something is wrong.

Actually, I mostly use 2 mics with mine, An SM58 for vocals and an SM57 for guitar/mandolin/resonator. But I can crank it with the S1 on the floor tilted back behind me and off to the left a bit.
__________________
The Murph Channel

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkomGsMJXH9qn-xLKCv4WOg
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 06-18-2019, 10:02 PM
ricdoug ricdoug is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Vista (North County San Diego), California USA
Posts: 824
Default

Your least expensive professional option:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...d_Graphic.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by guitargabor View Post
Thanks to both Marty and Methos!

to answer your questions-yes I decreased the bass to zero on the guitar channel .

I'll need to diminish the volume level of the B Band while increasing the guitar channel on the S1.

Sounds like an outboard pre amp may be useful.

What would you suggest in terms of something reasonable in cost?

Thanks,

Gabe
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Acoustic Amplification

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:00 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=