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Old 12-13-2019, 10:06 PM
therbulus therbulus is offline
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Default Losing end pin

Second time this happened: Got home from an open mic and found my end pin lying in the case. (This is a D-18S, 1971.) I e-mailed Martin and they said to push it back in; didn't recommend glue. I'd like a better answer, since I DID push it back in last time--don't want it to crash while playing. Anyone else experience this? What would solve it?
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Old 12-13-2019, 10:31 PM
FoxHound4690 FoxHound4690 is offline
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I've never heard of that happening before.... to me it sounds like it could be one of three things.... either....

A) There's way too much tension down the bridge end of your strings so it might need the action adjusted to ease the tension on your bridge.

B) You just haven't pushed the pin in far enough to begin with, give it a light tap with a rubber hammer if you have one. might help fix the issue.

C) It's faulty craftsmanship from when the guitar was first made. Very unlikely with a big name maker like Martin but it's not impossible.
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Old 12-13-2019, 11:09 PM
Mandobart Mandobart is offline
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This does happen every so often on a tapered end pin. Happened on one of my mandolins. Just a drop of hide glue, then push it in. If you ever need to take it out just wrap some leather around it, gentle twist and pull with pliers.
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Old 12-13-2019, 11:14 PM
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DenverSteve DenverSteve is offline
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I've seen it very rarely over 40 years. Just push in and twist. A drop of carpenter's glue on the pin won't hut it and will set it in place. I've never felt a need for a bit of glue but if the pin is falling out after twisting it in place that's what I would do.
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Old 12-14-2019, 02:03 AM
Ben M. Ben M. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by therbulus View Post
I DID push it back in last time
Push it in while twisting it. Like you're screwing the lid on a pickle jar. Gluing an end pin seems like a bad idea to me.
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Old 12-14-2019, 02:13 AM
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JayBee1404 JayBee1404 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxHound4690 View Post
I've never heard of that happening before.... to me it sounds like it could be one of three things.... either....

A) There's way too much tension down the bridge end of your strings so it might need the action adjusted to ease the tension on your bridge.

B) You just haven't pushed the pin in far enough to begin with, give it a light tap with a rubber hammer if you have one. might help fix the issue.

C) It's faulty craftsmanship from when the guitar was first made. Very unlikely with a big name maker like Martin but it's not impossible.
A) String-tension and/or action-adjustments do not affect the fit of the end-pin.

B) Do not use any kind of implement to ‘hammer’ the end-pin in. That route can lead to a split end-block. As others have said, a push-and-twist should do the trick - if not, a tiny spot of wood-glue on the pin, or a wrap of painter’s tape around it, should do it.

C) It’s not necessarily ‘faulty craftsmanship’. Changes in RH can cause an end-pin to become loose, or extra-tight, in the end-pin hole. FWIW, I’ve had five Martins, of which two had loose end-pins, and three had end-pins which were too large to seat properly and required the hole reaming.

The usual disclaimers apply......IMHO, YMMV etc.
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Old 12-14-2019, 02:36 AM
Sardara Sardara is offline
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Try wrapping some PTFE tape round it.
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Old 12-14-2019, 03:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sardara View Post
Try wrapping some PTFE tape round it.
Thanks Sardara, PTFE tape was what I was trying to think of (and failing miserably) when I said ‘painter’s tape’! TOSB (Tired Old Septuagenarian Brain) syndrome!

Painter’s tape is thicker than PTFE, of course. I guess which works best depends on the amount of ‘looseness’ of the pin.
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Last edited by JayBee1404; 12-14-2019 at 04:32 AM.
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Old 12-14-2019, 03:22 AM
rsmillbern rsmillbern is offline
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I had this happening with my Waterloo when I first got it. Though I lost the pin at a jam session in a dark pub only to find it when I got home, in the strap hole.

I actually did wrap one layer of painters tape (it was what I had on hand) around the pin and "screwed" it in. No problems since.
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Old 12-14-2019, 04:53 AM
LyleGorch LyleGorch is offline
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Had a D-35 with this problem. Used a sliver of Scotch tape, boom problem gone.
I now have the opposite with my Froggy Bottom, can’t get it out.
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Old 12-14-2019, 05:21 AM
Wade Hampton Wade Hampton is offline
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FoxHound wrote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxHound4690 View Post
I've never heard of that happening before.... to me it sounds like it could be one of three things.... either....

A) There's way too much tension down the bridge end of your strings so it might need the action adjusted to ease the tension on your bridge.

B) You just haven't pushed the pin in far enough to begin with, give it a light tap with a rubber hammer if you have one. might help fix the issue.

C) It's faulty craftsmanship from when the guitar was first made. Very unlikely with a big name maker like Martin but it's not impossible.

FH, from the way you've phrased your post it seems to me that you're thinking that the problem that the OP has is with his bridge pins, rather than the single large, tapered pin that fits into the tailblock of the guitar. That's what the end pin is:



End Pin



Bridge Pins

As for myself, therbulus, on those occasions when I've chosen to keep a tapered end pin on my guitars, I've done what Martin has recommended against and that is to put a thin layer of white glue like Elmer's Glue on the pin. Once it's dried it can easily be removed without damaging anything if you give it a sharp twist, but it won't slip out when you're playing the guitar and using the end pin to support a strap.

Martin probably advises against gluing in the end pin so that people don't epoxy it or use some irremovable adhesive on it. If you ever have to ship the guitar back to the factory or anyplace else, it's a good idea to remove the end pin. For that matter, it's probably also a good idea to remove it when you check the guitar as baggage on an airplane flight.

The other reason Martin advises against gluing in the end pin, most likely, is that having the tapered pin firmly in place when the guitar is shipped is that if the end of the guitar gets a strong blow - say it fell from the belly of a jet to the tarmac twenty feet below - if the end of the guitar hits hard the shape of the tapered end pin can make it act like a wedge and crack the tailblock and sides.

But with the application of a light coat of white glue you make the guitar less risky to play while standing and using a strap. To me, the risk of having the guitar fall and hit the floor is more troubling than the thought of disobeying Martin's edict on the matter.

Short version: the end pin can be glued with a thin layer of white glue, then easily removed by twisting it out should you ever need to ship the instrument or travel with it as checked luggage.

Hope that makes sense.


Wade Hampton Miller
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Old 12-14-2019, 06:45 AM
duluthdan duluthdan is offline
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Give it a thin coat of paraffin wax before you twist it in.
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Old 12-14-2019, 07:27 AM
Kyle76 Kyle76 is offline
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I wonder if a tiny drop of Loctite, used to keep screws from vibrating loose, wouldn’t be a good solution. It doesn’t form an adhesive bond like wood glue. Never tried it, just throwing it out there.
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Old 12-14-2019, 07:52 AM
Parlorman Parlorman is offline
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These seems to happen when humidity gets low in the winter months.

If you don’t want to use glue you could try Peg Dope which violinists use on their friction pegs. Some use bow rosin for the same thing.
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Old 12-14-2019, 09:45 AM
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JayBee1404 JayBee1404 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wade Hampton View Post
FH, from the way you've phrased your post it seems to me that you're thinking that the problem that the OP has is with his bridge pins, rather than the single large, tapered pin that fits into the tailblock of the guitar. That's what the end pin is:
Wade, I wondered about that when I posted my reply above. But FH went on, in point B], to talk about hammering the pin into the hole using a rubber hammer. I can’t imagine anyone suggesting taking a hammer to a bridge-pin, so I presumed he understood that the OP was talking about the endpin rather than bridgepins.

But I could have presumed wrong - perhaps FH will check in and clarify?

The usual disclaimers apply......IMHO, YMMV etc.
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Brook ‘Lamorna’ OM (European Spruce/EIR) (2019)
Lowden F-23 (Red Cedar/Claro Walnut) (2017)
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