Fingerpicking Issues

[Alder Statesman]

Originally Posted by Cobalt

Actually the thumb on the back of the neck is perpendicular the my index finger. I wrote the chord out wrong before as it's X02342. I can form it and make it sound clear when just practicing it so maybe I just need more of that. I said second fret but i am playing in open D tuning with a capo on three so my barring finger is actually on the 5th fret. I will just keep working on it, appreciate the advice.

I learned this from a college-level classical instructor: take a pencil and with your fretting hand hold it against the the tips of your four fingers with your thumb. Your thumb will likely be aligned with the tip of your middle finger (2) and not your index finger (1). The hand will feel “balanced”.

Now, use that as your baseline to align your fretting hand on the guitar. Yes, you will shift for stretches, but try to return to that position as much as possible.

On your picking hand, try to keep your knuckles parallel to the strings.

HTH

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by Alder Statesman

I learned this from a college-level classical instructor: take a pencil and with your fretting hand hold it against the the tips of your four fingers with your thumb. Your thumb will likely be aligned with the tip of your middle finger (2) and not your index finger (1). The hand will feel “balanced”.

In the pencil example, the reason that one places one's thumb opposite the middle finger is to reduce torque. If you oppose the first finger with the thumb, the force applied by the other three fingers is all on one side, eccentric. Greater dexterity is then required to counter the eccentric force caused by those three fingers. Placing the thumb opposite the middle of the forces by the four fingers makes it easier to balance the pencil. If the forces are not balanced, the pencil will fly out of your fingers or be dropped.

That doesn't apply to a guitar neck: it won't fly out of your hands or be dropped. When barreing strings on a a guitar, the index (first) finger is generally parallel to and opposing the index finger. The action is like just pinching the thumb and index finger together, much like trying to open a clothes pin.

Much too much is made of the difficulty of barre chords. The barre requires two things, as many have already noted. The first is good technique. Taught good technique, most beginners can easily master the basic barre. The second is a well setup guitar: a well setup guitar is physically easier to play.

With a well setup guitar, the barre chord does not take a great amount of hand/finger strength. Many attempt to replace good technique with brute force. With good instruction, most beginners can play a basic barre within minutes: it doesn't take years of struggling to accomplish it.

The short answer is that if you continue to struggle with a basic barre chord look to either your technique or the setup of your instrument.

[Huskyman]

Originally Posted by TBman

See if you can roll your index a bit so its on its side a little with a bit of a curve. Also, is it critical that the 5th string remains open? Otherwise do a whole barre.

Also, what strings are you using? You might want to go down a gauge, go to round core or maybe silk and steel.

I'll also suggest a setup might need to be done.

I do need the open 5th string for that part of the song. Until the last few years i realized that a full barre was easier for me to play due to the drop of soreness in that first joint but when i got heavily into fingerpicking i had to learn to do partial barre chords like i am using here.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by Cobalt

I do need the open 5th string for that part of the song. Until the last few years i realized that a full barre was easier for me to play due to the drop of soreness in that first joint but when i got heavily into fingerpicking i had to learn to do partial barre chords like i am using here.

My short non-piano fingered hands play x02342 without any problem. The 1st string is not on any joint. On my Washburn that has 1 11/16 nut, the string really hits a quarter of an inch away from the joint. The 5th string rings clear but I'm an ant's butt away from it.

I would try practicing the chord at the 7th fret which should give you a bit more leverage because your arm is closer to your body. Once you start nailing the chord up the neck, work it down over time.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by charles Tauber

In the pencil example, the reason that one places one's thumb opposite the middle finger is to reduce torque. If you oppose the first finger with the thumb, the force applied by the other three fingers is all on one side, eccentric. Greater dexterity is then required to counter the eccentric force caused by those three fingers. Placing the thumb opposite the middle of the forces by the four fingers makes it easier to balance the pencil. If the forces are not balanced, the pencil will fly out of your fingers or be dropped.

That doesn't apply to a guitar neck: it won't fly out of your hands or be dropped.

That's not the point. The point of the pencil exercise is to get your hand into the correct shape for fretting in general, to avoid the common (instinctive) mistakes beginners often make - holding the neck in the palm, or placing the thumb parallel to the neck, or the wrong side of the index.
The pencil exercise shows how the thumb remains central when spreading the fingers apart - it supports all fingers from an average central position. It's a good guide as to how one supports the fretting fingers on the guitar.
But....

Originally Posted by charles Tauber

When barreing strings on a a guitar, the index (first) finger is generally parallel to and opposing the index finger. The action is like just pinching the thumb and index finger together, much like trying to open a clothes pin.

You're right in that barres need a slightly different technique. The fingers don't need to stretch far up the fretboard, and the index needs more support from the thumb.
Personally, however, I find barres more efficient when my thumb is pressing opposite the fret above the index, not directly opposite the index. YMMV.

Originally Posted by charles Tauber

Much too much is made of the difficulty of barre chords. The barre requires two things, as many have already noted. The first is good technique. Taught good technique, most beginners can easily master the basic barre. The second is a well setup guitar: a well setup guitar is physically easier to play

Yes!

[Huskyman]

Thanks everyone. I appreciate it. I went through all the posts and it does not seem to be a technique issue. It is getting better now. Yesterday it was there for the most part. So I think in a few days this issue will be past me.

I will get a setup and most likely go to extra light strings. I know some feel that you lose some tone and while that is probably true I think losing a drop of tone that I wont notice is better than a sore finger or terrible sounding notes!

Thank you all.