OK, it's time I learn BlueGrass

[Ncbandit]

Well, now that I have my 2nd dread being delivered in 2 days, (Alvarez MD60BG to go along with my Eastman ES11-CLA-LTD), it seems only appropriate that I learn to play some bluegrass.

I learned to play guitar on classic rock and can shred the blues scale with the best of them, so hopefully it won't take too long to be fairly competent in these bluegrass runs.

I started today with a youtube video detailing 5 examples of the G-Run. 1)standard, 2) Del McCoury, 3) Tony Rice, 4) Doc Watson, and 5) Norman Blake.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEQcF_qKRbk

Any other suggestions and tips is greatly appreciated. I have to justify to my Wife why I keep buying all these acoustics other than just having GAS.

[Mandobart]

This is the one subject I'll keep chiming in on regardless how often it comes up.

Bluegrass is a different scene musically, culturally and socially than jazz, blues, folk or rock. Bluegrass and old time are participatory genres. This is porch pickin' music. There are no solo artists in these genres - it only works with a full band (fiddle, banjo, guitar, mandolin, maybe dobro and bass). You need to play with others to learn it. Find a bluegrass or old time music association in your area and jam with them.

I started doing this 10 years ago on mandolin, after having been a guitar picker for over 30 years. In two years I was better on mandolin than on guitar. A huge reason is I had mainly played guitar at home, occasionally, and almost always alone. Sure we all need time in the woodshed, but nothing will help you learn quicker and better than regularly playing with other people, face-to-face (not YouTube, skype, FaceTime, etc.). Other benefits of my weekly jams - I learned a bunch more songs, made new friends and improved on guitar and fiddle a lot in addition to mandolin. The single best thing I've done to improve as a musician in the past 40+ years was starting going to weekly bluegrass jams 10 years ago.

[Ncbandit]

Originally Posted by Mandobart

This is the one subject I'll keep chiming in on regardless how often it comes up.

Bluegrass is a different scene musically, culturally and socially than jazz, blues, folk or rock. Bluegrass and old time are participatory genres. This is porch pickin' music. There are no solo artists in these genres - it only works with a full band (fiddle, banjo, guitar, mandolin, maybe dobro and bass). You need to play with others to learn it. Find a bluegrass or old time music association in your area and jam with them.

I started doing this 10 years ago on mandolin, after having been a guitar picker for over 30 years. In two years I was better on mandolin than on guitar. A huge reason is I had mainly played guitar at home, occasionally, and almost always alone. Sure we all need time in the woodshed, but nothing will help you learn quicker and better than regularly playing with other people, face-to-face (not YouTube, skype, FaceTime, etc.). Other benefits of my weekly jams - I learned a bunch more songs, made new friends and improved on guitar and fiddle a lot in addition to mandolin. The single best thing I've done to improve as a musician in the past 40+ years was starting going to weekly bluegrass jams 10 years ago.

Thanks for the reply and that makes a lot of sense. I would assume it would be necessary to learn certain bluegrass basics before joining a jam session. I don't think they would appreciate me going off on some blues solo. LOL!!

Do you agree with this or do you recommend going in cold and they would take me under their wing?

[mattbn73]

Originally Posted by Ncbandit

Thanks for the reply and that makes a lot of sense. I would assume it would be necessary to learn certain bluegrass basics before joining a jam session. I don't think they would appreciate me going off on some blues solo. LOL!!



Do you agree with this or do you recommend going in cold and they would take me under their wing?

No. Find the right jam.

The culture around this music is great. Go to any picking session, and you'll probably hear about others while there . Try several and sit in anywhere you can. Much easier to find these kind of picking sessions than in other styles of music, in certain areas for sure.

At the ones I've been to, there are always people who just play rhythm etc or are just casual players. I'm sure it's very different, depending on the specific sessions.

[Ncbandit]

Originally Posted by mattbn73

No. Find the right jam.

The culture around this music is great. Go to any picking session, and you'll probably hear about others while there . Try several and sit in anywhere you can. Much easier to find these kind of picking sessions than in other styles of music, in certain areas for sure.

At the ones I've been to, there are always people who just play rhythm etc or are just casual players. I'm sure it's very different, depending on the specific sections.

I get it now. I will see what's going on in my area.

[Silly Moustache]

Yeah, bluegrass is a group thing and as a guitarist your main job is to thwack out that boom-chick rhythm so's the banjo, fiddle, mndo and perhaps dobro players can show off.

Your job is to maybe sing to, or at least harmonies, and fill out the spaces left between the bass players I & Vs, with the odd G-run.

Yeah you can work out some fancy fiddle toon picking but the other guys don't really want to hear you - they think that they are the stars and you are just one of the rhythm section.
Deal with it!

[DesertTwang]

Originally Posted by Ncbandit

Thanks for the reply and that makes a lot of sense. I would assume it would be necessary to learn certain bluegrass basics before joining a jam session. I don't think they would appreciate me going off on some blues solo. LOL!!

I think most bluegrassers would. The best bluegrass solos incorporate a lot of elements from other styles, especially blues, so being proficient in that realm gives you a great head start. There is nothing more boring than playing everything in major all the time.

Do you agree with this or do you recommend going in cold and they would take me under their wing?

In my experience, nothing is more important in bluegrass guitar than being an excellent rhythm player. You will find that most top-level players would agree. Being able to shred a cool solo is great, but if your rhythm is not dead-on and able to drive the jam, it's of no use.

To me, that is one of the main differences between bluegrass and other genres. Blues, especially, doesn't strike me as the rhythmically "tightest" of all genres, while in bluegrass, nothing is more important, because it's the only genre I can think of where no percussion section is involved. The string instruments have to take over that role. The guitar's responsibility is to help the bass drive on the 1 and the 3, sometimes the 2 and 4.

At the same time, rhythm playing tends to get short shrift by many bluegrass guitar players, and I'm guilty of that, too. We all want to shred the cool solos, but we have to remind ourselves that a strong rhythm foundation is about 80% of the game.

So that's probably something worth paying attention to.

[Ncbandit]

Originally Posted by DesertTwang

I think most bluegrassers would. The best bluegrass solos incorporate a lot of elements from other styles, especially blues, so being proficient in that realm gives you a great head start. There is nothing more boring than playing everything in major all the time.



In my experience, nothing is more important in bluegrass guitar than being an excellent rhythm player. You will find that most top-level players would agree. Being able to shred a cool solo is great, but if your rhythm is not dead-on and able to drive the jam, it's of no use.

To me, that is one of the main differences between bluegrass and other genres. Blues, especially, doesn't strike me as the rhythmically "tightest" of all genres, while in bluegrass, nothing is more important, because it's the only genre I can think of where no percussion section is involved. The string instruments have to take over that role. The guitar's responsibility is to help the bass drive on the 1 and the 3, sometimes the 2 and 4.

At the same time, rhythm playing tends to get short shrift by many bluegrass guitar players, and I'm guilty of that, too. We all want to shred the cool solos, but we have to remind ourselves that a strong rhythm foundation is about 80% of the game.

So that's probably something worth paying attention to.

Excellent advise. Thank you!!

[merlin666]

I don't know much about Bluegrass, but this summer I attended a music camp and the instructor made us learn "Big Mon"


We played at a fraction of the Tony Rice speed, and the fingering discipline and using a metronome took all fun out of it. Bluegrass is not for me.

[DesertTwang]

Originally Posted by merlin666

I don't know much about Bluegrass, but this summer I attended a music camp and the instructor made us learn "Big Mon"


We played at a fraction of the Tony Rice speed, and the fingering discipline and using a metronome took all fun out of it. Bluegrass is not for me.

Sorry you had that experience. Please give bluegrass another shot. It sounds like you had a bad teacher, and it's not the genre's fault. No good teacher would choose Big Mon, much less Tony Rice's version, as an introduction to flatpicking and bluegrass. Let me just randomly guess: Was your instructor one of those types who can pick up a storm on their instrument but couldn't find their way out of a paper bag when it comes to teaching? I've met quite a few of those...

[DesertTwang]

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

Yeah, bluegrass is a group thing and as a guitarist your main job is to thwack out that boom-chick rhythm so's the banjo, fiddle, mndo and perhaps dobro players can show off.

Your job is to maybe sing to, or at least harmonies, and fill out the spaces left between the bass players I & Vs, with the odd G-run.

Yeah you can work out some fancy fiddle toon picking but the other guys don't really want to hear you - they think that they are the stars and you are just one of the rhythm section.
Deal with it!

I don't think I would subscribe to this scenario in such broad swaths. It sounds like your jam happens to be one of those overly "traditionally minded" ones. The circles I play with like and welcome any instrument to take solos, and it goes without saying that the guitar players, too, get to solo if they like.

[Mandobart]

Originally Posted by Ncbandit

Thanks for the reply and that makes a lot of sense. I would assume it would be necessary to learn certain bluegrass basics before joining a jam session. I don't think they would appreciate me going off on some blues solo. LOL!!

Do you agree with this or do you recommend going in cold and they would take me under their wing?

The main bluegrass basics are the cowboy chords you already know, solid rhythm and be comfortable with a capo. A lot of fiddle tunes are in A - this means you capo on 2 and play key of G chord shapes rather than play first position key of A open chords.

Most jams are very accepting and encouraging toward beginners in the genre, but not very appreciative of someone coming in with the idea of rocking, bluesing or jazzing up the bluegrass. However, a lot of grassers love to cut loose on swing tunes or even gypsy jazz.

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

Yeah, bluegrass is a group thing and as a guitarist your main job is to thwack out that boom-chick rhythm so's the banjo, fiddle, mndo and perhaps dobro players can show off.

Your job is to maybe sing to, or at least harmonies, and fill out the spaces left between the bass players I & Vs, with the odd G-run.

Yeah you can work out some fancy fiddle toon picking but the other guys don't really want to hear you - they think that they are the stars and you are just one of the rhythm section.
Deal with it!

Ignore almost everything Andy says above. Yes your main job is rhythm - but that's EVERYBODY'S JOB when you don't have the lead break. I play mostly mandolin and fiddle, and when it's not my turn to solo I'm a high hat, chopping on the off beat. I'm not sure how the bluegrass authorities in the UK do it, but in the western US its pretty much a circle jam with the solo break going around the circle. We very much encourage flatpicked acoustic guitar breaks. But you don't have to be a Brian Sutton or Tony Rice to play along - you can pass on taking a break. The vocals are very important, too. Don't sing the same notes as the lead singer - sing harmony above or below. Jam etiquette is very important - a common rookie error is singing or playing too loud. If you can't hear the singer or the solo you're too loud.

If you're good natured, don't come on too strong at first, are receptive to feedback and suggestions from the rest of the jam you'll be fine.

[Ncbandit]

Originally Posted by Mandobart

The main bluegrass basics are the cowboy chords you already know, solid rhythm and be comfortable with a capo. A lot of fiddle tunes are in A - this means you capo on 2 and play key of G chord shapes rather than play first position key of A open chords.

Most jams are very accepting and encouraging toward beginners in the genre, but not very appreciative of someone coming in with the idea of rocking, bluesing or jazzing up the bluegrass. However, a lot of grassers love to cut loose on swing tunes or even gypsy jazz.



Ignore almost everything Andy says above. Yes your main job is rhythm - but that's EVERYBODY'S JOB when you don't have the lead break. I play mostly mandolin and fiddle, and when it's not my turn to solo I'm a high hat, chopping on the off beat. I'm not sure how the bluegrass authorities in the UK do it, but in the western US its pretty much a circle jam with the solo break going around the circle. We very much encourage flatpicked acoustic guitar breaks. But you don't have to be a Brian Sutton or Tony Rice to play along - you can pass on taking a break. The vocals are very important, too. Don't sing the same notes as the lead singer - sing harmony above or below. Jam etiquette is very important - a common rookie error is singing or playing too loud. If you can't hear the singer or the solo you're too loud.

If you're good natured, don't come on too strong at first, are receptive to feedback and suggestions from the rest of the jam you'll be fine.

Excellent advice!! Thank you

[Mandobart]

Originally Posted by merlin666

I don't know much about Bluegrass, but this summer I attended a music camp and the instructor made us learn "Big Mon"

We played at a fraction of the Tony Rice speed, and the fingering discipline and using a metronome took all fun out of it. Bluegrass is not for me.

Before you write it off, I would suggest attending a few festivals with some friends. The campground jams are the best. You play what you know, watch, listen and learn. Workshops, camps, courses, etc. can be a real mixed bag.

[DesertTwang]

Originally Posted by Mandobart

Before you write it off, I would suggest attending a few festivals with some friends. The campground jams are the best. You play what you know, watch, listen and learn. Workshops, camps, courses, etc. can be a real mixed bag.

^^^ THIS ^^^