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Old 01-13-2019, 06:18 PM
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TomB'sox TomB'sox is offline
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Default Help with sound system please

So as some of you may know and most probably don't, I am hosting a big guitar event at my home near San Antonio in March. If you want to learn more about this, there is a thread in the Custom Shop regarding B.I.G. aka B'sox International Guitarapolooza!!!! There is a schedule there towards the end and the first post describes the event.

Anyway, among other things, we are having multiple artists perform throughout the day including Michael Watts coming from England to perform Saturday evening. I thought I had an EV 50 system all set to use, but this has fallen through.

I would love some suggestions for a system that would be good for capturing acoustic guitars through mics. Some may have pick-ups, but since this is about the sound of acoustics, I think most will not. It will be outside and will need to project to a crowd of about 50 sitting on an outdoor patio. I thought the EV 50 would be perfect for this. I am hoping for a budget of 800-1200 probably. I don't really know what I need for sure, but I thought a couple of powered speakers (Mackies maybe) and a simple 4 channel board would work. Also suggestions on mics that are good, but not going to cost me a kidney would be great.

Thanks for your suggestions and if anyone is interested in coming, I have room for about 10 more guests. It should be a blast, that is if you like guitars, music, food, and drinks, otherwise it will kind of suck lol!
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Old 01-13-2019, 06:51 PM
YamahaGuy YamahaGuy is offline
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I'd go with a Yamaha MG10XU mixer, I'd think a single QSC CP12 would more than cover that size of a group. I'd put it high and behind performers on a speaker stand.

If you want a pair of speakers I'd go for the Mackie Thump 12a. In that case, I'd throw one at the FOH and use the second as a wedge monitor for the performers.

For mics, look for a MXL990/991 kit or Sterling SP50/SP30 kit. By the time you got all the stands and cables (assuming you need that too) you'll be pushing that budget.
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Old 01-13-2019, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by YamahaGuy View Post
I'd go with a Yamaha MG10XU mixer, I'd think a single QSC CP12 would more than cover that size of a group. I'd put it high and behind performers on a speaker stand.

If you want a pair of speakers I'd go for the Mackie Thump 12a. In that case, I'd throw one at the FOH and use the second as a wedge monitor for the performers.

For mics, look for a MXL990/991 kit or Sterling SP50/SP30 kit. By the time you got all the stands and cables (assuming you need that too) you'll be pushing that budget.

Thank you, that looks great. I do have an MXL 440/441 and MXL 550/551 mic as well as a Floureon BM-800? Don't know if any of those would be good enough?

Also saw these, Electro-Voice ZLX-12P 12" 2-Way Powered 1000W Speakers that I could get a pair for about $700.00. I would think at 12 inches and a thousand watts each would do the job and would be about the same as the Mackies. I have heard really good things about the EVs, don't know much though. Do you think the Mackie's are better for the same price? They are 1300 watts.
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Old 01-13-2019, 09:13 PM
sdelsolray sdelsolray is offline
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Consider renting a decent sound system and a capable soundperson experienced with acoustic shows to handle the gig.
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Old 01-13-2019, 09:15 PM
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Consider renting a decent sound system and a capable soundperson experienced with acoustic shows to handle the gig.
Yes, thought of this, but in a search of my area, did not find anything or anyone that seemed to do it. Since I am hoping to make this an annual thing, I thought an investment in a system would make some sense.
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Old 01-14-2019, 04:50 AM
YamahaGuy YamahaGuy is offline
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I've never personally used either the Mackies or the EVs. If possible, I'd tried to A/B them at a Guitar Center. I do know that one speaker's 1000 watts and another speaker's 1300 watts is very relative. I have a 15 inch "2000 watt" speaker that a 12 inch "400 watt" speaker demolishes in every way.
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Old 01-14-2019, 06:49 AM
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I would look for a decent used Qsc k12 or k10
position it so the performer can hear it as well.
but not so it will feedback. a used A&h zed10
mixer can be had for around 200. A great condensor
mic for guitar is mxl 603. can be found cheap.
or a used shure sm81. You can get another speaker
next year. For 50 people this would sound great.
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Old 01-14-2019, 08:42 AM
MikeBmusic MikeBmusic is offline
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Outside on a patio with 50 people, you're going to need 2 speakers - with one speaker to one side of the performer, the sound would be uneven to the audience. So QSC is not within your budget. Those EVs are within your budget - are they new or used? If used, then you should be able to bargain the price down, they go for $400 each new.
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Old 01-14-2019, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YamahaGuy View Post
I've never personally used either the Mackies or the EVs. If possible, I'd tried to A/B them at a Guitar Center. I do know that one speaker's 1000 watts and another speaker's 1300 watts is very relative. I have a 15 inch "2000 watt" speaker that a 12 inch "400 watt" speaker demolishes in every way.
Thank you, that seems to be a common finding which is why it is so hard to just comparison shop on line because the stats don't seem to match the performance. One of the reasons I was reaching out for help. Thank you for yours.

Quote:
Originally Posted by varmonter View Post
I would look for a decent used Qsc k12 or k10
position it so the performer can hear it as well.
but not so it will feedback. a used A&h zed10
mixer can be had for around 200. A great condensor
mic for guitar is mxl 603. can be found cheap.
or a used shure sm81. You can get another speaker
next year. For 50 people this would sound great.
Thank you, I don't know if I have time to shop and find used....Amazon I think will be the ticket. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by MikeBmusic View Post
Outside on a patio with 50 people, you're going to need 2 speakers - with one speaker to one side of the performer, the sound would be uneven to the audience. So QSC is not within your budget. Those EVs are within your budget - are they new or used? If used, then you should be able to bargain the price down, they go for $400 each new.
Thank you, that is a new price and includes stands and two cables. I know folks who use the EV 50 system that love it, so maybe incorrectly, I was hoping the EV speakers would be a good value as well. An EV50 can be had for $1500.00, but I was hoping to find something pretty close in quality of sound, but save a little money. I also do not want someone of Michael's and the other performers talent to be playing on some bad system.

Since I am funding this project out of pocket, expenses are an issue.
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Old 01-14-2019, 03:46 PM
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Perhaps one of the dealers would be willing to rent you something for a very reasonable price, in exchange for a bit of promo for both themselves and for the equipment? Great chance to showcase equipment with some very good guitars and players present -
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Old 01-14-2019, 03:57 PM
Captain Jim Captain Jim is offline
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Hi Tom. Another option to consider: a Bose S1 Pro. $599, a/c or battery operated. Good output. 15 pounds, so light and easy to move around. Two channels, both with a preset for mic or guitar. If you need more than two channels, you could add a mixer and still be under your budget. And, you'd have a small PA that you could enjoy around the house or for other outside gigs.

Good luck with your gathering - if we were going to be around home, I would be at this gathering; sounds like a delightful opportunity for any guitar player!

Best wishes,
Jim
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Old 01-14-2019, 03:59 PM
Wistah Wistah is offline
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I would consider getting three speakers, two in the air, one on the floor to act as a monitor for the artist(s). Of course you can spend through the nose on gear, but that seems overkill for what you are trying to pull off.

Speakers: Those EV ZLX speakers are great and will serve you well. The EV ELX sound better and will produce higher SPL, but you are not dj'ing, so you don't need it. You could even get away with Altos. TS310 or TS312 would be fine for this type of event.

If you really want a stick type PA system, the Turbosound IP2000 is about half the price of the EV system and will get the job done.

As for mixers Yamaha MG10XU and Soundcraft Notepad 12FX are good options in the price range you are looking at.

As for mics, you can go with an SM58 on voice and an SM57 on the instrument. Cheap and reliable. No need for condenser mics. You will be outdoors, wind noise, ambient sounds, etc. I think you want dynamic for those reasons.

Budget enough money for cabling, stands, gig bags, foam covers for mics, etc
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Old 01-14-2019, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tadol View Post
Perhaps one of the dealers would be willing to rent you something for a very reasonable price, in exchange for a bit of promo for both themselves and for the equipment? Great chance to showcase equipment with some very good guitars and players present -
I wish I knew someplace in my area I could reach out to. Humphrey amps is coming to the event already and I don't really want to compete with him like that if you know what I mean. Are you planning on coming to hang with Bruce?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Jim View Post
Hi Tom. Another option to consider: a Bose S1 Pro. $599, a/c or battery operated. Good output. 15 pounds, so light and easy to move around. Two channels, both with a preset for mic or guitar. If you need more than two channels, you could add a mixer and still be under your budget. And, you'd have a small PA that you could enjoy around the house or for other outside gigs.

Good luck with your gathering - if we were going to be around home, I would be at this gathering; sounds like a delightful opportunity for any guitar player!

Best wishes,
Jim
Thanks Jim, I saw those Bose A/B with another system and I just did not think they would have the output I need. Seems like that is a complaint about them so was worried that outside they may not do it. I will need more than two channels as Paul Nichols will be playing, singing, and his wife will be singing as well. So I will need a mixer.

I really am sad you can't make it, would love to meet you face to face being fellow Texans and all. Are you sure you can't swing back from AZ for a great weekend?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wistah View Post
I would consider getting three speakers, two in the air, one on the floor to act as a monitor for the artist(s). Of course you can spend through the nose on gear, but that seems overkill for what you are trying to pull off.

Speakers: Those EV ZLX speakers are great and will serve you well. The EV ELX sound better and will produce higher SPL, but you are not dj'ing, so you don't need it. You could even get away with Altos. TS310 or TS312 would be fine for this type of event.

If you really want a stick type PA system, the Turbosound IP2000 is about half the price of the EV system and will get the job done.

As for mixers Yamaha MG10XU and Soundcraft Notepad 12FX are good options in the price range you are looking at.

As for mics, you can go with an SM58 on voice and an SM57 on the instrument. Cheap and reliable. No need for condenser mics. You will be outdoors, wind noise, ambient sounds, etc. I think you want dynamic for those reasons.

Budget enough money for cabling, stands, gig bags, foam covers for mics, etc
Thank you very much. So I am assuming you have heard or used the EV ZLX speakers as that is the way I was leaning! The Altos you mentioned are very reasonably priced at 250/350 respectively. Seems like the Yamaha mixers are really well respected and I will likely go that way. You are the second one to recommend the MG10XU.

I think I am starting to get somewhere. I do have a couple of bookshelf-type monitor speakers that I think would work for the artists to hear if needed. I do have those mics I mentioned earlier so I have cables for those and foam covers etc. Most of the speaker packages come with cables as well. I have mic stands but not speaker stands. I can maybe find some higher end mics used at GC.

PS. My daughter just moved to Wistha
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Old 01-14-2019, 05:27 PM
Wistah Wistah is offline
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Yes, I've heard the ZLX and they are my favorite budget speaker. They sound better to my ears than the comparable JBL (Eon) and Mackie (Thump) offerings. I almost bought a pair for my acoustic band gigs, but decided on the ELX line for times when I might need more oomph. I use the prior generation Alto TS210s as floor monitors.

I've not played with the MXL440/441. I've used the MXL990/991 extensively. I don't like those for live performance, especially outside. Bright and sibilant, not my favorite on voices. Make sure you get some kind of wind sock to mitigate blowing wind noise through the mics. And good luck!
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Old 01-14-2019, 06:43 PM
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As for mics, you can go with an SM58 on voice and an SM57 on the instrument. Cheap and reliable. No need for condenser mics. You will be outdoors, wind noise, ambient sounds, etc. I think you want dynamic for those reasons.

Yeah, I'm not familiar with many of the other mics mentioned here, and I'm sure they're great, but for the money (and even just period), these Shure mics are terrific. There are endless discussions about condenser v. dynamic but for a live performance the vast majority of sound guys in most common settings are gonna go with dynamic for a reason. I've used them both for live and recording, very happily. These particular dynamics also have the advantage of being something just about anyone who has performed a lot is familiar with. While not everyone's favorite they're widely respected.

I have the Yamaha MX10XU and if it fits your budget, you can't go wrong with it. I love mine.

Good luck with the event, that's great!
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