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  #16  
Old 01-14-2019, 02:38 PM
Monsum Monsum is offline
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Originally Posted by Petty1818 View Post
Hmm, I would not have thought of that. I might give that a try. I also have some of the Amulet M tape left over that I might try as it's even thinner. I think Sprucetop once mentioned that he had issues with the HFN in that the three feet did not all fully attach as the bridge plate was not completely flat. I wonder if this is why Schatten moved to the abs base. Maybe it's more consistent or can be a bit more flexible.
I've just tried it and reinstalled the pickup. Yes, I got a perfect balance between the strings but it changed the tone completely and not for the better. It sounds harsh now, looking at a frequency analyser it lost high end and there is too much mids at around 1.8 and 2kHz.
I'd love to have the tone from the first installation and string balance from the second. I'll keep experimenting with the position of the pickup. I still have enough adhesive tape for 3 installations.
Any ideas where I should try to move it next?
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  #17  
Old 01-14-2019, 03:53 PM
The Kid! The Kid! is offline
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Originally Posted by GuitarLuva View Post
Not to hate on the k&k as it is a good pickup and I have used it before, but the Schatten HFN is much easier to install/remove and sounds much better IMO.
Which one do you recommend?

I have a ToneDexter and a Sunnaudio Stage DI in my chain, but I bring just a Red-Eye if I'm just doing a plug in and play thing. I'm not a huge fan of the K&K, so if the Schatten sounds better and can be used with the Tonedexter, I might be making a switch.
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  #18  
Old 01-14-2019, 03:58 PM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
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Originally Posted by Monsum View Post
I've just tried it and reinstalled the pickup. Yes, I got a perfect balance between the strings but it changed the tone completely and not for the better. It sounds harsh now, looking at a frequency analyser it lost high end and there is too much mids at around 1.8 and 2kHz.
I'd love to have the tone from the first installation and string balance from the second. I'll keep experimenting with the position of the pickup. I still have enough adhesive tape for 3 installations.
Any ideas where I should try to move it next?
Have you tried the putty yet? If not, try it out. I feel like with the tape the three feet have to meet a flat surface. With the putty it doesn't matter as much as there's still a transfer of sound if that makes sense.

On a side note, after thinking over the recommendation from Schatten, I do find that approach to be a bit odd. I don't find it surprising that you disliked the new tone. If anything, it would make more sense to maybe shave a little off one of the legs but I would have to know for sure that one was off before doing this.

Last edited by Petty1818; 01-14-2019 at 04:06 PM.
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  #19  
Old 01-14-2019, 04:08 PM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
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Originally Posted by The Kid! View Post
Which one do you recommend?

I have a ToneDexter and a Sunnaudio Stage DI in my chain, but I bring just a Red-Eye if I'm just doing a plug in and play thing. I'm not a huge fan of the K&K, so if the Schatten sounds better and can be used with the Tonedexter, I might be making a switch.
If I can chime in here, I have used both and currently have the K&K and HFN in two of my guitars. I immediately noticed clarity with the HFN that the K&K lacks. I hardly had to tweak the HFN where as the K&K needs a lot of work. I also find that when I strum, the HFN sounds more like my guitar and less of a pickup. The K&K always has this mid range/inside the guitar tone that I don't love. I have not been able to fully fall in love with the Tonedexter yet but the HFN doesn't really need it anyway.
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  #20  
Old 01-14-2019, 04:59 PM
SpruceTop SpruceTop is offline
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Originally Posted by Petty1818 View Post
Hmm, I would not have thought of that. I might give that a try. I also have some of the Amulet M tape left over that I might try as it's even thinner. I think Sprucetop once mentioned that he had issues with the HFN in that the three feet did not all fully attach as the bridge plate was not completely flat. I wonder if this is why Schatten moved to the abs base. Maybe it's more consistent or can be a bit more flexible.
With the HFN, ideally, you'd want to make sure the three feet make and remain in contact with the bridgeplate. I think the Trance tape will enable a stronger adhesion than the VHB tape.

Try this first: Place a clean HFN on a pane of glass or a mirror and look under the feet to see if you can see light under any of them. If so, you could lightly sand the feet that would enable all three feet to sit flat on the glass surface.

Alternative to first but likely better but more tedious: Determine if all three feet of the HFN make contact with the bridgeplate before using adhesive to apply it to the bridgeplate. You could do this by applying No. 2 pencil lead or carbon paper residue (rub the HFN on the carbon paper) to the feet of the HFN and pressing lightly and equally with one finger under each foot to leave a light deposit of graphite or carbon on the bridgeplate. Use a mirror and light to see if all three feet leave an imprint. If not, lightly sand away enough HFN material from the appropriate feet to enable all three feet to make contact. Finally, use rubbing alcohol to remove all graphite or carbon residue from the bridgeplate and HFN before installing the HFN.
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  #21  
Old 01-14-2019, 05:06 PM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
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Originally Posted by SpruceTop View Post
With the HFN, ideally, you'd want to make sure the three feet make and remain in contact with the bridgeplate. I think the Trance tape will enable a stronger adhesion than the VHB tape.

Try this first: Place a clean HFN on a pane of glass or a mirror and look under the feet to see if you can see light under any of them. If so, you could lightly sand the feet that would enable all three feet to sit flat on the glass surface.

Alternative to first but likely better but more tedious: Determine if all three feet of the HFN make contact with the bridgeplate before using adhesive to apply it to the bridgeplate. You could do this by applying No. 2 pencil lead or carbon paper residue (rub the HFN on the carbon paper) to the feet of the HFN and pressing lightly and equally with one finger under each foot to leave a light deposit of graphite or carbon on the bridgeplate. Use a mirror and light to see if all three feet leave an imprint. If not, lightly sand away enough HFN material from the appropriate feet to enable all three feet to make contact. Finally, use rubbing alcohol to remove all graphite or carbon residue from the bridgeplate and HFN before installing the HFN.
Excellent ideas! I am hesitant to remove mine since I really like the sound right now but I might try to trace around it so that I remember where I had it positioned and then try some of your ideas. I still think the Amulet M tape might prove the best overall tone. I just would love a stronger low E.
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  #22  
Old 01-14-2019, 05:14 PM
SpruceTop SpruceTop is offline
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Originally Posted by Petty1818 View Post
Excellent ideas! I am hesitant to remove mine since I really like the sound right now but I might try to trace around it so that I remember where I had it positioned and then try some of your ideas. I still think the Amulet M tape might prove the best overall tone. I just would love a stronger low E.
Remember: Perfection Is The Enemy Of Good (or it can be in trying to achieve perfection).
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  #23  
Old 01-14-2019, 07:41 PM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
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Originally Posted by SpruceTop View Post
Remember: Perfection Is The Enemy Of Good (or it can be in trying to achieve perfection).
Haha it's true. I think I might try and record the guitar direct and see how the balance is. I think sometimes when I get an idea in my head that something's off, I fixate on that issue and in reality it's not even there.
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  #24  
Old 01-14-2019, 07:56 PM
GuitarLuva GuitarLuva is offline
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Originally Posted by The Kid! View Post
Which one do you recommend?

I have a ToneDexter and a Sunnaudio Stage DI in my chain, but I bring just a Red-Eye if I'm just doing a plug in and play thing. I'm not a huge fan of the K&K, so if the Schatten sounds better and can be used with the Tonedexter, I might be making a switch.
I would easily recommend the Schatten HFN over the k&k any day of the week. I use it with a tonedexter as well with no issues, though like Petty1818 said tonedexter don't change the sound that much as it already sounds good as is. When I switched from the tape to the putty install I don't even EQ anything. Just plug and play and that's the first pickup ever that I never had to EQ.
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  #25  
Old 01-14-2019, 10:42 PM
The Kid! The Kid! is offline
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Originally Posted by GuitarLuva View Post
I would easily recommend the Schatten HFN over the k&k any day of the week. I use it with a tonedexter as well with no issues, though like Petty1818 said tonedexter don't change the sound that much as it already sounds good as is. When I switched from the tape to the putty install I don't even EQ anything. Just plug and play and that's the first pickup ever that I never had to EQ.
Forgive me, but is the HFN the passive or active version?

Also, if the K&K has been super glued in, is it impossible to switch out?
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  #26  
Old 01-14-2019, 10:50 PM
GuitarLuva GuitarLuva is offline
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Originally Posted by The Kid! View Post
Forgive me, but is the HFN the passive or active version?

Also, if the K&K has been super glued in, is it impossible to switch out?
I have the passive version. They have an active version and they also have an artist version that can be powered by either phantom power or a 9v battery.

The k&k can be removed if glued but its not easy to do without destroying it. You would also have to remove the glue by sanding or some other means. A tedious process but it can be done.
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  #27  
Old 01-14-2019, 11:03 PM
The Kid! The Kid! is offline
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Originally Posted by GuitarLuva View Post
I have the passive version. They have an active version and they also have an artist version that can be powered by either phantom power or a 9v battery.

The k&k can be removed if glued but its not easy to do without destroying it. You would also have to remove the glue by sanding or some other means. A tedious process but it can be done.
Thank you.

I wouldn't do it myself. I'd definitely bring it to my tech.

I wonder if I should go passive, or try the active version...
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  #28  
Old 01-15-2019, 07:48 AM
GuitarLuva GuitarLuva is offline
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Originally Posted by The Kid! View Post
Thank you.

I wouldn't do it myself. I'd definitely bring it to my tech.

I wonder if I should go passive, or try the active version...
That's always a tough decision. Passive pickups have a lot of advantages but they have disadvantages as well. You will need an acoustic amp or an external preamp for a passive pickup so that's something for you to consider. If you have either of those you're good to go. No more batteries and less clutter inside your guitar. Some like the convenience of onboard controls so you need to decide which you prefer. If I were you though I wouldn't pay to have anyone install the Schatten it's as easy as it gets. Totally up to you though if you don't feel comfortable.
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  #29  
Old 01-15-2019, 07:58 AM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
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My buddy bought and is installing the active version next week. I have a feeling it will make me want that one. I do love the passive option though, it would just be nice to have a bit more of a plug and play option. I think to that it's always nice to have a tone wheel on board. If I go active, I might just put the passive version in my bouzouki. It will be tricky to do but I bet it will sound awesome.
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  #30  
Old 01-15-2019, 01:22 PM
Monsum Monsum is offline
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I've reinstalled the HFN again (3rd attempt). I used the tape on all three feet but this time I moved it slightly up, to the bass side.
It sounds very good now and balanced between the strings, no weak low-E string, if anything it has more bass but this can be easily removed with a HPF.
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