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  #16  
Old 12-10-2018, 01:47 PM
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Bob Womack Bob Womack is offline
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I've heard of Schatten, but never in the pluperfect subjunctive.


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  #17  
Old 12-10-2018, 02:06 PM
Marshall Marshall is offline
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Originally Posted by GuitarLuva View Post
Most negative reviews that I've read on previous Schatten pickups have been with passive versions and people not realizing that they needed to be using some sort of preamp with them. The price and ease of install/removal is most definitely appealing. I've really been on a pickup binge the last few months and no matter what type of pickup I try or hear there's always something to critique. I realize there's no perfect system out there, but overall things are improving in the pickup world. Maybe one day we'll all have what we're looking for.
Schatten makes a nice belt clip preamp for those passive pickups. They also make a model with a endpin preamp and soundhole Volume and Tone wheels. Typical internal battery. That's in my main guitar. And it works great with the ToneDexter. The T control allows me to shape the sound if the sound guy has the PA cranked real harsh and trebly.
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  #18  
Old 12-10-2018, 05:26 PM
GuitarLuva GuitarLuva is offline
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Originally Posted by Petty1818 View Post
You know, come to think of it, I remember when I got my HFN I did question whether or not it was real wood. I have looked at photos and the original is definitely a piece of wood. I believe mine was more of a black texture. I will have to look when I get home. It would definitely account for the hot signal I was getting. That was one surprise to me. I remember people complaining that it needed a preamp but even without, my signal was strong.
Sounds like you got the new version. The following is the pic he sent me of the artist version. I'm personally only interested in the passive version though.

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  #19  
Old 12-10-2018, 07:45 PM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
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Originally Posted by GuitarLuva View Post
Sounds like you got the new version. The following is the pic he sent me of the artist version. I'm personally only interested in the passive version though.

I will take a look tonight as I am starting to doubt myself. However, I think I do have a newer one. I want to try the tape installation method next to see of it sounds.
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  #20  
Old 12-12-2018, 10:17 AM
GuitarLuva GuitarLuva is offline
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Well I just pulled the trigger on one. Ordered from their website last night so I don't know when I'll receive it. I'll be sure to let everyone know my thoughts on it when I do install it though.
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  #21  
Old 12-12-2018, 10:42 AM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
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Well I just pulled the trigger on one. Ordered from their website last night so I don't know when I'll receive it. I'll be sure to let everyone know my thoughts on it when I do install it though.
Just a heads up about purchasing directly from Schatten. This isn't unique to them but if you purchase from a dealer, you get quite a significant discount on their products. I can't remember exactly but I remember the HFN passive was $139.99 on the Schatten website but I got it from one of their dealers for $105.99. This wasn't just a deal from this particular dealer, it was the standard price I was finding. I guess Schatten sells at the suggested price and allows their dealers to discount.
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  #22  
Old 12-12-2018, 12:17 PM
GuitarLuva GuitarLuva is offline
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Originally Posted by Petty1818 View Post
Just a heads up about purchasing directly from Schatten. This isn't unique to them but if you purchase from a dealer, you get quite a significant discount on their products. I can't remember exactly but I remember the HFN passive was $139.99 on the Schatten website but I got it from one of their dealers for $105.99. This wasn't just a deal from this particular dealer, it was the standard price I was finding. I guess Schatten sells at the suggested price and allows their dealers to discount.
Doh! I wish I knew that beforehand but at the same time I wanted to make sure I was getting the newest version.
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  #23  
Old 12-12-2018, 12:22 PM
philjs philjs is offline
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One thing I've noticed with the new HFN passive, that I probably should've seen right away, is that they come in a black package...same plastic clamshell that it always was but the background packaging used to be red. I've had a dozen or so pass through my hands in the past 8 years and it never occurred to me that the packaging was different until just now! D'Oh!

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  #24  
Old 12-12-2018, 01:02 PM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
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Originally Posted by philjs View Post
One thing I've noticed with the new HFN passive, that I probably should've seen right away, is that they come in a black package...same plastic clamshell that it always was but the background packaging used to be red. I've had a dozen or so pass through my hands in the past 8 years and it never occurred to me that the packaging was different until just now! D'Oh!

Phil
Hmm, this makes me think I received an older version now. I am pretty sure mine came in the red packaging. If so, the HFN must have been changed only recently. I ordered mine in September and the dealer had to get it straight from Schatten as they were out of stock.
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  #25  
Old 12-12-2018, 01:06 PM
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I quite like it. The installation is about as simple as it gets, especially with the putty. It does still have that piezo quality to it but I find it's a bit more hi-fi than the K&K (in a good way) and for my experiments, it was a bit more full sounding than the Amulet M.

Interesting note though, when I first put it in, I used the putty and admittedly I think I used a bit too much. As a result, the lower strings were weaker sounding. I know Sprucetop has mentioned this issue but I believe it had more to do with me not evenly pressing it into place. The tone was great otherwise.

Recently I stuck my hand in and pressed down harder and more evenly. The tone is now much more balanced but it's a bit too hi-fi/thin now. I know Les recommends tape for a warmer tone so I might try that next or I make take it out and do a proper installation.

As a standalone pickup though, it's hard to beat the price, installation and tone. I have to be honest, after trying the K&k, Schatten and Amulet, I can't say there's a huge difference so it's hard for me to justify the Amulet pricing.
I'm in agreement with this comparison between K&K, HFN, and Trance. In essence, they all use similar piezo transducers. But the location away (and 3D suspension) from the bridge plate gives a sense of air to the tone. However, the installation is more critical with these 3 dimensional solutions, whereas K&K is nothing but slapping some superglue on a 2 dimensional disc and sticking it on.

Over the past 5 years I have tried most of the pickups on the market, including those mentioned in this thread. All of them can produce good results in some guitars with expert installation. That said, I'm back to using K&K. My time for tweaking and re-installing has all but vanished. I'm not suggesting K&K is the "answer." It's simply a matter of attrition for me. I'm further convinced no one in the audience cares, and I can't be bothered to obsess about it anymore.

So, I'm going for simple and "good enough." Schatten HFN can be an improvement over K&K in terms of adding some "air." The same is true for Amulet. The K&K begins to close the gap with a proper preamp to restore high frequency reproduction. But, that won't capture the "air" inside the guitar like a 3D element will. However, my initial installations of HFN and Trance were always disappointingly thin sounding. Who knows, maybe they would have benefited from super glue too?
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Last edited by martingitdave; 12-12-2018 at 01:11 PM.
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  #26  
Old 12-12-2018, 03:13 PM
GuitarLuva GuitarLuva is offline
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Originally Posted by martingitdave View Post
I'm in agreement with this comparison between K&K, HFN, and Trance. In essence, they all use similar piezo transducers. But the location away (and 3D suspension) from the bridge plate gives a sense of air to the tone. However, the installation is more critical with these 3 dimensional solutions, whereas K&K is nothing but slapping some superglue on a 2 dimensional disc and sticking it on.

Over the past 5 years I have tried most of the pickups on the market, including those mentioned in this thread. All of them can produce good results in some guitars with expert installation. That said, I'm back to using K&K. My time for tweaking and re-installing has all but vanished. I'm not suggesting K&K is the "answer." It's simply a matter of attrition for me. I'm further convinced no one in the audience cares, and I can't be bothered to obsess about it anymore.

So, I'm going for simple and "good enough." Schatten HFN can be an improvement over K&K in terms of adding some "air." The same is true for Amulet. The K&K begins to close the gap with a proper preamp to restore high frequency reproduction. But, that won't capture the "air" inside the guitar like a 3D element will. However, my initial installations of HFN and Trance were always disappointingly thin sounding. Who knows, maybe they would have benefited from super glue too?
I agree with everything you said and I will tell you this: I will experiment with different positions and if I decide the schatten is staying when I'm done experimenting it will be glued in!
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  #27  
Old 12-12-2018, 06:09 PM
stevecuss stevecuss is offline
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Originally Posted by martingitdave View Post

....Over the past 5 years I have tried most of the pickups on the market, including those mentioned in this thread. All of them can produce good results in some guitars with expert installation. That said, I'm back to using K&K. My time for tweaking and re-installing has all but vanished. I'm not suggesting K&K is the "answer." It's simply a matter of attrition for me. I'm further convinced no one in the audience cares, and I can't be bothered to obsess about it anymore....

Thats a really good word. K&K is low cost, high output, sounds great. Plus with the onset of IR, the pickup may become less and less important over time. And yep, who in the audience cares? Very very few people.
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  #28  
Old 12-12-2018, 08:13 PM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
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Originally Posted by martingitdave View Post
I'm in agreement with this comparison between K&K, HFN, and Trance. In essence, they all use similar piezo transducers. But the location away (and 3D suspension) from the bridge plate gives a sense of air to the tone. However, the installation is more critical with these 3 dimensional solutions, whereas K&K is nothing but slapping some superglue on a 2 dimensional disc and sticking it on.

Over the past 5 years I have tried most of the pickups on the market, including those mentioned in this thread. All of them can produce good results in some guitars with expert installation. That said, I'm back to using K&K. My time for tweaking and re-installing has all but vanished. I'm not suggesting K&K is the "answer." It's simply a matter of attrition for me. I'm further convinced no one in the audience cares, and I can't be bothered to obsess about it anymore.

So, I'm going for simple and "good enough." Schatten HFN can be an improvement over K&K in terms of adding some "air." The same is true for Amulet. The K&K begins to close the gap with a proper preamp to restore high frequency reproduction. But, that won't capture the "air" inside the guitar like a 3D element will. However, my initial installations of HFN and Trance were always disappointingly thin sounding. Who knows, maybe they would have benefited from super glue too?
I totally get that. My only knock on the K&K is that even with eq, it still has this distinct tone that works well as a solo or duo set up but not so much in a band. The Schatten seems to just give a bit more high end. I also like that with the HFN, you can experiment without any issues. With that said, the HFN I have still needs to be readjusted so at least the K&K is consistent.
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  #29  
Old 12-13-2018, 08:00 AM
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martingitdave martingitdave is offline
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Originally Posted by Petty1818 View Post
I totally get that. My only knock on the K&K is that even with eq, it still has this distinct tone that works well as a solo or duo set up but not so much in a band. The Schatten seems to just give a bit more high end. I also like that with the HFN, you can experiment without any issues. With that said, the HFN I have still needs to be readjusted so at least the K&K is consistent.
I agree with all of that. In a band setting with bass and drums the UST or soundhole magnetic pickup is the only thing I've used successfully.
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  #30  
Old 12-13-2018, 05:07 PM
Marshall Marshall is offline
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. . . , It's simply a matter of attrition for me. I'm further convinced no one in the audience cares, and I can't be bothered to obsess about it anymore. . . . ,
You're right, except I CARE what I sound like. It makes me feel good about what I'm doing when I hear a sound coming back in the monitors that sounds like I want to sound.

And when I hear somebody else's harsh quackie sound coming out of the sound system, I cringe.
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