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  #1  
Old 08-18-2018, 04:01 PM
buzzardwhiskey buzzardwhiskey is offline
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Default Tonedexter wavemap sharing

I don't know if this has been started already (please point to a site if that's the case) but here's a link to a Google drive where the wavemap I'm currently gigging with is being stored if you'd like to try it:

Martin CEO7
K&K pure mini
Miktek PM5 mic

https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...rn?usp=sharing
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  #2  
Old 08-19-2018, 07:48 PM
BT55 BT55 is offline
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You have come up with a really good idea! There should be a lot of people with the exact same guitars and pickups who could share their wavemaps. Well done
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  #3  
Old 08-19-2018, 07:54 PM
AeroUSA AeroUSA is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BT55 View Post
You have come up with a really good idea! There should be a lot of people with the exact same guitars and pickups who could share their wavemaps. Well done
Does anyone here have the same guitar and pickup combination? I tried your map on my D-35 and it sounds overly bright and missing the low end. Isnít this feature more for backing up existing maps rather than sharing them?
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Old 08-19-2018, 08:29 PM
buzzardwhiskey buzzardwhiskey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroUSA View Post
Does anyone here have the same guitar and pickup combination? I tried your map on my D-35 and it sounds overly bright and missing the low end. Isn’t this feature more for backing up existing maps rather than sharing them?
Compared to a D35, my guitar IS missing the low end.

I imagine that wavemaps would be shared more successfully/acceptably by similar guitars, but it's a cool experiment nonetheless.

The Martin CEO7 is an OO size model.
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Last edited by buzzardwhiskey; 08-19-2018 at 09:03 PM.
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  #5  
Old 08-19-2018, 09:39 PM
NoodleFingers NoodleFingers is offline
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Before I got my ToneDexter, I had (still have, if somebody wants to buy it) a Fishman Aura Spectrum DI. It is definitely true that Aura "images" from different guitars can yield results that are strange (to say the least) and sound terrible. Fishman recommends looking for similar guitars to try images from (since you're forced to use their limited library). But the best image I ever found for my Dreadnought cedar/wild cherry Seagull S6 was (as I recall) a spruce/mahogany Taylor GA. Go figure.

I've never used anyone else's WaveMaps on my ToneDexter. But I lurk the TD threads pretty hard, and I've never heard of anyone getting those sorts of terrible results (like I got with the Aura) from their ToneDexter. The Audio Sprockets algorithm appears to be far more forgiving. Using WaveMaps across guitars seems to work pretty well most of the time.

A place to swap WaveMaps online sounds like a great idea. James May has been MIA on the AGF for a little while, but if he reads this, it might not be a bad idea (if it's not too much expense/work) to set up a forum there for discussion and exchanges of WaveMaps.

Just my .02
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  #6  
Old 08-20-2018, 05:24 AM
Monsum Monsum is offline
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Wavemap sharing might work or not but it's worth to experiment.
If anyone has a good wavemap for a Gibson dreadnought with the K&K pickup, I'll give it a try.
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  #7  
Old 08-20-2018, 09:24 AM
Marshall Marshall is offline
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If you've got a ToneDexter, why would you want somebody else's wavemap? Just beg, borrow, or steal the best mic you can get your hands on, and make your own wavemap. It only takes a minute or two.
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  #8  
Old 08-20-2018, 09:41 AM
gfirob gfirob is offline
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I have three wavemaps in my Tonedexter, the best attempts with a Martin rosewood OM, a vintage National Type O and a ladder-braced Kalamazoo KG14. Words can't express how awful they sound when one is applied to the other guitars and how great they sound when applied to their own original guitars.

I suppose this is worth experimenting with, though. I would love to try a wavemap from a pre-war rosewood Martin OM on my own OM, for instance assuming it was made with a good mike. But there are so many variables it makes my head spin.

If somebody with a fabulous collection of guitars and a fabulous selection of microphones put together a library of "Wavemap's Greatest Hits" it would probably be worth trying out...
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  #9  
Old 08-20-2018, 09:49 AM
buzzardwhiskey buzzardwhiskey is offline
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I have no idea if the success rate of shares will be high enough to warrant a public archive of wavemaps, but that's what we're here for right!?

I can imagine finding two or three wavemaps that I like and using them. For instance, I do a half dozen tunes with my band where my own CEO7's tone is perfect for the mix. Then I switch to a Gibson L-00 for a bluesy number with a harmonica. Then over to a Santa Cruz PJ for a soft love song.

All without actually switching guitars!
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  #10  
Old 08-20-2018, 08:17 PM
ceciltguitar ceciltguitar is offline
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Paging James May: Perhaps Audio Sprockets could host a library of wave maps on their web site? Perhaps wave maps could be rated by players who try them? Maybe player ratings could utilize the commonly used rating system of assigning 1 to 5 stars to a wave map, with comments optional? Those submitting wave maps could include a standard list of information, such as instrument used, mic used, any other categories that Audio Sprockets deems important, and comments to include anything that the person submitting the wave map wants to mention about creating the wave map.

Just an idea........The round file has 10 - 100 ideas for every idea that ends up being useful.
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  #11  
Old 08-21-2018, 04:46 AM
Peter Z Peter Z is offline
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I think you have to be lucky to find a good wavemap from another guitar for yours. Therefore a wavemap database on the Audio Sprockets site could lead to disappointing results and a negative image of the ToneDexter.

But exporting the wavemaps could have another use beside of sharing the wavemaps:
If James provides a wavemap-wave converter we could load the images into Cubase/Protools or whatever and treat them with all the nice plugins and hardware we have in a studio. Can you imagine the possibilities we'd have with all the surgical EQs and exiters and and and .... ?

James, do you see a way to make this possible?
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  #12  
Old 08-21-2018, 07:39 AM
buzzardwhiskey buzzardwhiskey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Z View Post
I think you have to be lucky to find a good wavemap from another guitar for yours. Therefore a wavemap database on the Audio Sprockets site could lead to disappointing results and a negative image of the ToneDexter.

But exporting the wavemaps could have another use beside of sharing the wavemaps:
If James provides a wavemap-wave converter we could load the images into Cubase/Protools or whatever and treat them with all the nice plugins and hardware we have in a studio. Can you imagine the possibilities we'd have with all the surgical EQs and exiters and and and .... ?

James, do you see a way to make this possible?
What an intriguing idea! I could apply EQ to the wavewap itself and get rid of my EQ pedal.
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  #13  
Old 08-21-2018, 04:24 PM
shufflebeat shufflebeat is offline
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Nice work BW.

I've been messing around with some different training techniques tonight so here are the results. Nothing has been tested in anything other than headphones but I thought someone might like to be in at the start of the process and see how it develops.

TDtest1

This is a zip file. Within it is the READ file full of wavemaps including:

09 - fiddle WM made with Barcus Berry bridge piezo and Rode nt3 - I use this live
10 - cheap acoustic with Baggs m1a and (1) schertler DynG on bridge [hi/lo rolled off] (2) Sony ecm55 lav at the base of the neck [lo rolled off at 60Hz].

I've also included the stems of the recordings I used to produce the WM (m1a into gtr input - mono mix of others into training input).

Hope this makes some sense and is of interest to someone.
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Last edited by shufflebeat; 08-21-2018 at 04:33 PM.
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  #14  
Old 08-21-2018, 04:32 PM
shufflebeat shufflebeat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Z View Post
...we could load the images into Cubase/Protools or whatever and treat them with all the nice plugins and hardware we have in a studio. Can you imagine the possibilities we'd have with all the surgical EQs and exiters and and and .... ?
Or you coud record your dry pickup and your mic'd signal - process the mic signal to your heart's content (it might not make a huge difference IME) then play back the recorded files (i.e L, dry/R, mic) into the TD and train from there.

See my last post for description of multi-mic training.
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  #15  
Old 08-22-2018, 04:42 AM
Peter Z Peter Z is offline
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Yes, tried this but I got some earth problems/humming I couldn't fight. Have to try that again. Maybe a reamp box will work and help with the levels at the same time.
I also had a Millennia stt1 channel strip inbetween the mic and the TD. That worked nice but you have to record, listen, make your seti gs and record again.
Your method would be more comfortable - or a wavemap- wave converter. :-)
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