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  #46  
Old 08-25-2018, 04:18 PM
printer2 printer2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charles Tauber View Post
A radial arm saw doesn't have the precision that a table saw has.

I almost never use my table saw, but for fret slotting, instead favouring my bandsaw. For me, the bandsaw isn't for making precise cuts for joinery. For me, that's generally done with hand tools.
But I have both.
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  #47  
Old 08-27-2018, 04:19 AM
emmsone emmsone is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor Gore View Post
....As the joint always needs some final hand fitting anyway, which I can do quite rapidly, I came to the conclusion that it was quicker for me to always do a "neutral" 90 degree bandsaw cut and then hand trim which ever way I needed to go rather than have dedicated jigs or set-ups on the band saw. If you have a bandsaw table that will tilt both ways, you can do the off-square shoulder cuts on a bandsaw, if that is your preference, but I've found that some hand trimming is still always required. You then have to return the table to precisely square again (never as easy as it should be!) With a large bandsaw, you should not need to finish the bass side cut with a hand saw.

If you have access to a table saw, the cuts can be done on a table saw by tilting the blade, but there's still the inevitable hand trimming. However, a table saw is a large piece of kit that is unnecessary for guitar building, so a table saw (other than a bench top one used for fret slots) doesn't form part of the book's tool kit.
Thanks for the reply Trevor.
The bandsaw in the workshop is a pretty large one with no tilt function so that option was out.
Because of my original angle miscalculation/mis cut/ mistake whatever, it was very difficult to adjust it that far by hand. I ended up with the help of one of the resident carpenter/cabinet makers from the workshop making a jig to allow us to cut the correct angle on one of the 2 large tables saws there (there are a lot of furniture builders using this workshop so they have large tools, if it was my own workshop, a table saw would be down the list of required tooling due to space and cost). Using the table saw worked out very nicely though. The very, very minor adjustments needed afterwards were much easier to do than the very large, almost so big I had thought about scrapping the whole neck type ones. I have now discovered I probably need a small rabbet plane which would probably help this process. Another job, another tool haha. I'd like one of the Veritas ones but my bank account tells me otherwise. I've seen some affordable bull nose rabbet planes, but not being a handtool expert I'm not sure if the bull nose planes are the right tool for this job.

Having thought about alternative options, I may be tempted to do that cut entirely with a japanese saw and a clamped on, angled, stabilising guide block next time.
The other option is to invest in a router based neck angle jig. But no matter how much I think about them, I can't get my head around how you can modify the horizontal cheeks cut by the router (at the correct angle) to become undercut to fit the curve of the guitar without damaging or changing that neck angle that was so precisely routed.

Can anyone who uses the router based neck angle jig method explain to me how this is achieved?! it would be much appreciated!
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  #48  
Old 08-28-2018, 04:55 PM
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There has been some more progress. And it really looks like a guitar now.

Thanks to Trevor's suggestion of using T-nuts, i didn't need to re-rout or cut a new fretboard extension plug as the M6 T-nuts fit perfectly. I annoyingly forgot to take pictures of this.
This meant i could glue the fretboard on and start carving the neck. I forgot to take a picture of gluing the fretboard on too.
With carving the neck the guitar really has begun to take shape and the end of the tunnel is appearing.
While waiting for the glue to dry when gluing the fretboard i dug out a chunk of walnut I had brought with me to the workshop and have started to make a long neck thickness calliper. I already have the digital micrometer from the deflection tester I made earlier.

Here is the start of my long neck thickness calliper. 2 blocks of walnut I had got glued together even though the one for the top section/micrometer support and mounting section is way larger than it needs to be.
Untitled by David Emm, on Flickr

neck carving process
Untitled by David Emm, on Flickr

i'm probably 75-80% through the carving now. I ended up with no volute because this guitar will be for my father. He uses a yoke style capo and these are often stored behind the nut when playing, i have noticed before that it's not so easy to do this with a volute, even a subtle one, so I left the volute off here. I now think aesthetically this neck would probably have suited having one, but its a bit late now.
Untitled by David Emm, on Flickr

side view of the guitar with neck mostly carved.
Untitled by David Emm, on Flickr

a more front on view kinda showing the now much tidier headstock
Untitled by David Emm, on Flickr
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  #49  
Old 08-29-2018, 01:14 PM
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Todays progress mostly involved razor files and sandpaper.
I ended up with a quite nicely carved neck, and after a quick effort using a router and a belt sander, also something that may soon actually function as a thickness checker started to take shape

Here is my neck
Untitled by David Emm, on Flickr

here is the thickness checker / calliper
Untitled by David Emm, on Flickr
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  #50  
Old 08-30-2018, 07:04 AM
Quickstep192 Quickstep192 is offline
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This is going to be one heck of a guitar. Really pretty.

Iím trying to understand the function of the neck extension pocket and the plug.
Can you educate me a bit?
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  #51  
Old 08-30-2018, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Quickstep192 View Post
This is going to be one heck of a guitar. Really pretty.

Iím trying to understand the function of the neck extension pocket and the plug.
Can you educate me a bit?
Thanks! I'm just hoping the sound lives up to my expectations
Well I can try...

I'm clearly not the out and out expert on topic, its my first attempt to use this neck joint but as I see it the neck extension has a very useful purpose and to me it makes a lot of sense.

If you have a typical bolt-on neck (without this neck extension system) the fretboard is glued to the neck but sticks out from the 12th or 14th fret over the top of the guitar body. You have 2 options, either glue the fretboard down or let it flap around.

If you have a bolt-on neck with this neck extension, the neck itself is effectively extended by the length of the extension. The fretboard is glued to this area as well and leaves only a very small amount of fretboard 'free floating'. This small area is now stiff enough not to have any wobble.
Because the fretboard is now glued down, but not to the guitar body, it stays flat yet allows the neck to be removed easily.

The extension, and thus the fretboard, are held down and in place by 2 vertical screws that run from under the neck block extension up and into the neck extension/plug along with the 2 standard bolts that run into the neck.

If you can't follow my description there are plenty of useful images around on google regarding the bolt-on bolt-off neck joint, also i think that there are some pictures of the same system in the Dion Guitars build thread in the Custom Shop section of the forum, if not there are definitely pictures on his Instagram page.
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  #52  
Old 08-30-2018, 07:43 PM
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I have a great piece of 60+ year old redwood and have been wondering what to pair it with for b+s. The color of your Leopardwood looks great with the redwood. Keep the pictures coming

Ed

* The redwood is actually much much older than 60 years, but 60 years since it was cut
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  #53  
Old 08-31-2018, 05:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruby50 View Post
I have a great piece of 60+ year old redwood and have been wondering what to pair it with for b+s. The color of your Leopardwood looks great with the redwood. Keep the pictures coming

Ed
I have a second set of the same redwood i'm using here and i'm already thinking about what i could eventually pair with it and I have 2 schools of thought.

Something from a similar colour palatte, kinda like the with the Leopardwood, something like Granadillo, Bubinga, Sapele or Ovangkol

Or, a dark contrasty option, Indian Rosewood (if i decide I want to deal with the CITES issues), Wenge, Malaysian Blackwood or a real outside choice would be Purpleheart, a deep coloured Purpleheart would have crazy contrast against the Redwood.

Because I personally would like to do something slightly different, i'd quite like to be able to build something from the dark contrast options, but that would depend on either waiting to be able to afford the wood for myself, or possibly finding somebody who would like to order something like that from me.
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  #54  
Old 08-31-2018, 11:04 AM
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David

I have been thinking of naturally finished, mildly figured maple - something like this:

https://www.stewmac.com/Materials_an...AB4BD-016.html

Ivoroid binding with no top purfling so just a thin outline shows against the redwood top. Black separation between binding and maple, black lacquered neck, ebony fretboard with ivoroid dots and binding, fossil ivory bridge - and maybe a stauffer head.

Yours has me re-thinking.

Ed
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  #55  
Old 09-02-2018, 05:00 AM
emmsone emmsone is offline
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Ed,
I had originally thought about the maple sides to go with the redwood top. I looked around at plenty of other pictures of similar builds online and liked what I saw but when I had the chance to pick up the leopardwood and put it next to the redwood in person, i felt it was a much better match for what I wanted. Its all personal preference though.
Personally, my favourite guitars of the 'lighter' back and sides matched with redwood is the current Tom Sands build for Will McNicol with Black Limba back and sides and also a spalted tamarind guitar i unfortunately don't remember who built that I saw on instagram.
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  #56  
Old 09-03-2018, 03:37 PM
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I spent my time in the workshop today trying to make the end of the neck look like it fits the style of the guitar. I think i'm on the right track, i just need to smooth it all out and clean it up when i go back tomorrow. In my opinion it looks better in person... these camera angles weren't the best. Also the neck looks massively fat in these pictures, its not.

Untitled by David Emm, on Flickr

I think its the camera angle but this side for some reason looks weird in the picture, the curved carve is deeper than it seems to show up here
Untitled by David Emm, on Flickr

also i've made some progress on my thickness measuring device, still need to add the trigger/lifter and the capped bolt that meets the underside of the measuring pin and when thats done I can start the shellac-ing for practice
Untitled by David Emm, on Flickr
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  #57  
Old 09-04-2018, 03:29 PM
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I did some more work on the neck end today, looks much tidier, unfortunately my pictures of that aren't sharp so I shall retake them tomorrow when I have acceptable light again

I also put my tuner holes in and plonked the tuners in to see how they'd look. I do like the outcome how the tuners sit against the headstock with its recurve at the top. I did discover my headstock was a bit thick and left not much string post sticking up, i used my Safe-T planer for the first time to take about 1.8mm off and leave a 15mm thick headstock, it still may be slightly thick. I discovered the Safe-T planer grabs the wood a lot more than I thought it would and doesn't cut as cleanly either. I don't think i'll be using it for any back and side thicknessing in the future unless its my only option.

These Schertler machine heads seem most excellent, i used the nylon string versions on my last build and was very happy, these seem even smoother and nicer.

I didn't fancy starting anything else this evening so i continued with my thickness measuring device / calliper. I cut the slot for and mounted the trigger, and put the cap nut in for the zero point. It's pretty much there now. I'll clean up the 'handle' and i might still make it a bit thinner in that handle area so i'm less likely to catch my knuckles on anything i'm measuring.

tuners sitting in there to see how I like the headstock outline
Untitled by David Emm, on Flickr


Untitled by David Emm, on Flickr
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  #58  
Old 09-06-2018, 08:43 AM
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Default A Redwood/Leopardwood OM build thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by emmsone View Post
I did some more work on the neck end today, looks much tidier, unfortunately my pictures of that aren't sharp so I shall retake them tomorrow when I have acceptable light again



I also put my tuner holes in and plonked the tuners in to see how they'd look. I do like the outcome how the tuners sit against the headstock with its recurve at the top. I did discover my headstock was a bit thick and left not much string post sticking up, i used my Safe-T planer for the first time to take about 1.8mm off and leave a 15mm thick headstock, it still may be slightly thick. I discovered the Safe-T planer grabs the wood a lot more than I thought it would and doesn't cut as cleanly either. I don't think i'll be using it for any back and side thicknessing in the future unless its my only option.



These Schertler machine heads seem most excellent, i used the nylon string versions on my last build and was very happy, these seem even smoother and nicer.



I didn't fancy starting anything else this evening so i continued with my thickness measuring device / calliper. I cut the slot for and mounted the trigger, and put the cap nut in for the zero point. It's pretty much there now. I'll clean up the 'handle' and i might still make it a bit thinner in that handle area so i'm less likely to catch my knuckles on anything i'm measuring.



tuners sitting in there to see how I like the headstock outline

Untitled by David Emm, on Flickr





Untitled by David Emm, on Flickr


Hi David,

It's all looking great. I wanted to let you know what we use here at the shop, to thickness our peg heads. Although we us a saf T planer to rough thickness the back of our necks, we use a spindle sander with an adjustable fence for the back of the headstock. It's much cleaner than the stp.

Nice build,
Joel
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  #59  
Old 09-06-2018, 03:37 PM
emmsone emmsone is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel Teel View Post
Hi David,
It's all looking great. I wanted to let you know what we use here at the shop, to thickness our peg heads. Although we us a saf T planer to rough thickness the back of our necks, we use a spindle sander with an adjustable fence for the back of the headstock. It's much cleaner than the stp.
Thanks Joel, thats something i've thought about, but there is no spindle sander in our workshop and i haven't found one that mounts in a drill press with sleeves that don't fall off. If i find one that holds the sandpaper on properly, it is something i would probably use.


More updates.
I shaped the bridge today. No idea how i came up with the shape i did, it was one of those things that just happened as I was carving, so I just went with it (actually I had the outline already) it was just the 'carve' that was new. I was liking how it was looking up until I drilled the pin holes.
The low E pin hole is far too close to the edge for my liking. I doubt its a structural problem it just looks worse than terrible
I don't know how i'm supposed to solve this issue though, it isn't aesthetically pleasing AT ALL, but without going for a fully compensated nut and saddle to allow me to go for a non-angled slot (something I was thinking about doing but i don't think my nut slot was left thick enough to make a compensated nut) nor do I have the setup to do such a thing at the moment) this was probably the way forward.
Having thought about it now, ie while typing, I could have gone for the semi-circular pin hole pattern but i've heard that those aren't the best for string angle over the saddle. No idea if thats true or not.
The issue came because the pencil dots on the bridge didn't seem as close to the edge as 4.5mm diameter holes actually are. A truly shocking error of judgement.
Interestingly enough, the bridge shape template you can see in the pictures below isn't nearly so bad because the string spacing is set to be 54.5mm instead of 57.5mm.

I then decided to fill some gaps around the edge of my rosette. There were absolutely no gaps when i installed it, I think its because the soundboard gets bent to fit the 25ft top radius and that probably stretches the wood around the rosette and opens up a few small gaps around the edges between the maple and the purfling or between the purfling and the soundboard. I used the super cool and ultra narrow and green GluBoost vinyl tape to mask it off. I'll do the reverse tomorrow to allow me to fill the gaps between the redwood and the purfling. I'm using a german (that i don't know the name of) resin like type product that all the carpenters in the workshop use for small gap filling. You add the sawdust from the wood you are filling to the resin, mix it and fill it. It comes out quite decently, i've seen it used, and briefly used it myself.

high tech bridge carving setup
Untitled by David Emm, on Flickr

bridge carving underway
Untitled by David Emm, on Flickr

bridge carved and looking nice on the soundboard
Untitled by David Emm, on Flickr

bridge carve finished but then completely ruined by the horrendous pin holes.
Untitled by David Emm, on Flickr

Rosette taped off to fill the holes around the maple before the filling was done. Kinda like the green, maybe I need to do a green rosette next time.
Untitled by David Emm, on Flickr
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  #60  
Old 09-07-2018, 02:47 PM
emmsone emmsone is offline
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I got lucky, for some unknown reason I had an extra Rocklite bridge blank sitting in my supplies pile so i made a new one and went for the semi-circular pin hole pattern. I decided that regardless of the possible string angle over the saddle issues, aesthetically it would be better, and it is, its SO much better, especially in this case and on this bridge design.
I am much happier with this result. Fortunately having just made the previous bridge yesterday and having it sat next to me, when I didn't have to experiment with sizing and I just had to copy the previous design, the carving process went much quicker

New Bridge
Untitled by David Emm, on Flickr

perhaps an idea for a 12 string
Untitled by David Emm, on Flickr
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