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  #61  
Old 03-02-2017, 08:13 AM
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Toby Walker Toby Walker is offline
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Originally Posted by Silly Moustache View Post

The heartache, time, travel to/from the dealers, attempted repairs and referrals to other luthiers not to mention the financial loss (2-3kish?) and total lack of help from H&D leaves a bitter scar.

I appreciate that some may have better experiences, but I would never consider touching one again.
A 'total' lack of help from H&D? I find that quite shocking. I've been close to them over a period of many years and have never heard of them treating a customer that way. I'm not doubting your story, but it does come as quite a shock to me.

Last edited by Toby Walker; 03-02-2017 at 08:35 AM.
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  #62  
Old 03-02-2017, 08:33 AM
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I hear a similar story when people ask me who's the better guitarist... THIS guy or THAT guy, both of which are top shelf players.

When one reaches a certain level of mastery, it really doesn't matter.

Same with instruments. I consider the Authentic line of Martin's to be comparable to any of the instruments put out there by the smaller makers, like Huss and Dalton. The prices are in the exact same ballpark and the quality, playability, performance and tone is on an equal level. Notice that I didn't say the same tone, albeit they are REAL close.

So who makes Martins that sound like Martins? There's no reason why a gifted luthier that will go through the trouble of duplicating, as close as they can, to all the specifications that Martin uses, can't do it. I'll tell you first hand that I have a custom built dread that sounds spot on like any off the shelf D-28. My luthier specifically used Martin's specs and the guitar came out terrific. You might ask why I just didn't go out and buy a D-28, which would be fair. The reason is that I have a special relationship with this luthier. He keeps my guitars in working order and builds some fine instruments. He offered to build me my own instrument and I asked if he could replicate a D-28. He said that he could, but that I would be the final judge and if I didn't' like it, no problem, I didn't have to take it. When it was finished I compared it to other D-28's and sure enough, it was spot on.

Of course, not everyone will have the opportunity to do this. I know in 1990 when I wanted a Martin guitar, I purchased my 000-16 which I still have to this day. If you want a Martin, buy a Martin.
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  #63  
Old 03-02-2017, 08:49 AM
Kerbie Kerbie is offline
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Originally Posted by Silly Moustache View Post
The customer service was non existent.
That's very surprising… I'm sorry to hear that. Experiences can vary, but H&D's customer service was as good as or better than any I've ever seen. Wonderful folks to deal with...

Last edited by Kerbie; 03-02-2017 at 08:55 AM.
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  #64  
Old 03-02-2017, 09:00 AM
WHguitarNYC WHguitarNYC is offline
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Originally Posted by Authentic View Post
First you'll get the "nobody makes a better Martin than Martin" guys.

Then you got the "insert boutique $4,000 brands" guys.

Then you got the "insert name of obscure independent luthier whose guitars are the best I've ever played and he lives in my town and you should try his guitars" guys.

Then you got the "argue over the definition of what is a Martin" guys.

Then you got the "I will never buy another Martin again after insert random bad experience" guys.

Then you got the 11+ pages of arguing and the thread is closed for having veered too much off topic from original question.
^^^ This. ^^^

Oh...and no one makes a better Martin than Martin.

If you're talking about consistency, you won't find that from a boutique builder that makes every guitar by hand. There would be too much variability - but that's what also makes them special.

Martin dreads are the standard. Keep looking until you find the one that speaks to you.
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  #65  
Old 03-02-2017, 09:01 AM
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Who makes Martins better than Martin

Nobody. And Martin doesn't make better Taylors. You get the point
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  #66  
Old 03-02-2017, 09:14 AM
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Who make Santa Cruz better than Santa Cruz, or Bougeois better than Bourgeois?????

Nobody make Martins better than Martin, the usual suspects (Bourgeois/Collings/Santa Cruz/H&D) all make fine "comparable" instruments, but they aren't substitutes for each other, they are alternative choices.

Like asking what Mustang is most like a Camaro, get the one you want to begin with, not see how close some other car can get.

I have high end Martins, if I thought there were better out there "to my ears" that's what I would own, and I have owned Collings and Bourgeois in the past.

The best way to get the vintage Martin sound is buy a Martin......
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  #67  
Old 03-02-2017, 09:21 AM
Zissou Intern Zissou Intern is offline
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Originally Posted by Toby Walker View Post
I hear a similar story when people ask me who's the better guitarist... THIS guy or THAT guy, both of which are top shelf players.
I don't know know if he is THIS guy or THAT guy, but one of the two is surely Norman Blake.
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  #68  
Old 03-02-2017, 09:22 AM
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Bruce Sexauer recently made two similar guitars modeled after Martins - he made one more traditional - called the UMGF - and one more modern -called the AGF. He recently posted a comparison of these being played. I highly recommend you look at the build thread and compare them. Real insight into making a "Martin" like guitar.
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  #69  
Old 03-02-2017, 09:41 AM
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I know this doesn't really help any, so sorry in advance, but that Santa Cruz Brad Paisley model Brad plays in that insurance commercial sounds just about as good as you could hope a great dread would sound, IMHO and to my ears. Not sure how different it is from their more pedestrian (and less expensive) D/PW but wow, what a great sound in that little clip.
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  #70  
Old 03-02-2017, 09:41 AM
Zigeuner Zigeuner is offline
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Originally Posted by muscmp View Post
no one. only martin makes martins. other may make copies and they may be subjectively better but they are not a martin made by martin.

play music!
I was hoping that someone would say what you posted here. Without a doubt, the Martin D-28 is the most-copied guitar ever built. From the body size to the shape of the neck, to the internal bracing and even the woods.

That being the case, I prefer the original. When I play mine, I don't have to keep telling myself that it's better, nicer, prettier, just like, sounds better or whatever compared to a Martin guitar.
,
It is a Martin guitar for better or worse. Nothing beats owning the original.
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  #71  
Old 03-02-2017, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Zigeuner View Post
I was hoping that someone would say what you posted here. Without a doubt, the Martin D-28 is the most-copied guitar ever built. From the body size to the shape of the neck, to the internal bracing and even the woods.

That being the case, I prefer the original. When I play mine, I don't have to keep telling myself that it's better, nicer, prettier, just like, sounds better or whatever compared to a Martin guitar.
,
It is a Martin guitar for better or worse. Nothing beats owning the original.
You bet. Exactly. I think many of us have been down that road trying to get the least expensive, closest sounding "Martin" and in the end those of us who can purchase one, purchases one and never looks back. I recently sold my HD but I WILL replace it with a D28 at some point in the next couple of years.
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  #72  
Old 03-02-2017, 10:04 AM
rokdog49 rokdog49 is offline
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I don't own a Martin. I would buy a Martin if I wished to spend the money required to get a D28. I would not buy a Martin imitation at the same or higher price. I did buy an Eastman E 20 D which emulates a Martin Marquis because it sounds similar but costed a lot less. Maybe I will buy a Martin someday. If I do it will be because I have decided I want a Martin.
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  #73  
Old 03-02-2017, 10:11 AM
The Bard Rocks The Bard Rocks is offline
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It's a fitting tribute to Martin that we are having this (these) discussion(s). If their guitars weren't great, no one would be trying to emulate or improve upon them.
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  #74  
Old 03-02-2017, 10:19 AM
jim777 jim777 is offline
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I guess I'm lucky as a primarily (nearly exclusively) electric player since '72, I can just go for whatever sounds the best to me without having to compare it to the monolith that is Martin and their legacy except in direct A/B situations when shopping. I played a bunch of Martins recently and they were nice, but not the be all and end all of acoustic guitars to me, anyway. I readily admit I can't listen to two guitars on a record and hear that one is a mahogany D18 and another a rosewood D28 though. To me it is simply two sounds, and they are either nice or not (and they usually are if they made it to record lol).

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bard Rocks View Post
It's a fitting tribute to Martin that we are having this (these) discussion(s). If their guitars weren't great, no one would be trying to emulate or improve upon them.
No arguing that!
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  #75  
Old 03-02-2017, 10:22 AM
SJ200 SJ200 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Authentic View Post
First you'll get the "nobody makes a better Martin than Martin" guys.

Then you got the "insert boutique $4,000 brands" guys.

Then you got the "insert name of obscure independent luthier whose guitars are the best I've ever played and he lives in my town and you should try his guitars" guys.

Then you got the "argue over the definition of what is a Martin" guys.

Then you got the "I will never buy another Martin again after insert random bad experience" guys.

Then you got the 11+ pages of arguing and the thread is closed for having veered too much off topic from original question.
No matter who wins, nobody makes a Martin as light as Martin, so we're back to Martin anyway.
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