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  #16  
Old 10-30-2016, 06:12 AM
JIMBO53 JIMBO53 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bax Burgess View Post
My last update for this thread. Jake, the luthier said that it was epoxy at the neck joint, a shallow dove tail that required him to dramatically slant his drill holes so that the steam could access the cavity, which I guess would be at the top of the dovetail. The dovetail began to split on one side as he worked both sides with a blade to loosen the neck. The treble side loosened easily, the bass side was the bugger.

Re-attaching the neck, the dovetail remains, however, Jake inserted a sleeve into it, to pair with a bolt applied from within the body, through the neck block - a bolt-on, dovetail neck. He also made a replacement bridge, its height almost twice that of the original, sanded down one.

The aforementioned, a little cosmetic work at the neck joint, some shaving of the fretboard to even out a slight twist, and new frets - total $930
It'll play great, already sounded great, but it'll win no beauty contests - can't wait. Crass looking, non original tuners will be replaced at a later date.
Obviously a labor of love, since the repair bill is higher than the instrument is worth, IMHO, by a long shot. I have a very soft spot in my heart (or maybe head) for Red Label Nippon Gakki's having owned 2 FG-75's, a FG-110, a FG-150 and the only RL-NG Yammy I currently own, a 1969 FG-180 is awaiting some tweaking on the nut and neck relief.
Unfortunately, these guitars nearly always need some moderate to severe neck remediation, a reset being one of the most expensive options. I've had luck with Bridge Doctors in taming a high action, but it's a cheap fix that can offer only moderate gains in playability. Only a neck reset can dial in the proper relationship of the neck to the body and bridge to achieve optimal playability.
Once repaired and set up properly, these early Yamaha's offer a very playable and nice sounding instrument that are pretty much bulletproof due to their laminate construction and beefy necks. For laminates, I'm always amazed how light these guitars feel in the hand.
I've replaced the tuners on most of my RL-NG's with Stew Mac tuning machines-excellent quality and affordable priced.
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  #17  
Old 10-30-2016, 09:46 AM
Bax Burgess Bax Burgess is offline
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JIMBO53, what were the tuners you bought as replacements? It can be a real task matching up measurements.
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  #18  
Old 12-13-2016, 08:29 AM
CTGull CTGull is offline
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I steamed off the necks of 3 Yamaha FG's last weekend. 1973 FG-160, 1974 FG-170 & a FG-180 with no serial number or markings on the inside. I've also done a 1973 FG-200. All shallow dovetails with hide glue. A 10 degree dovetail angle vs. 20 degrees I've seen in the only other neck reset I've done. The neck joint is 1/8" to 3/16" to the heel side of the 15th fret. There's also a huge 1/2" wide pocket it the center for the truss rod head.

I drilled 3 holes. 1 on 3/4" to each side of center, and one in the middle into the big pocket. I alternated steaming each hole for 6 minutes total. I used a neck jig I built, which was clamped to the table. With pressure from the screw on the jig, a few side to side wiggles and the necks popped off. I didn't wiggle the neck until I saw a little vertical movement from the screw pressure. I assume less chance of snapping the heel in half.

I think the problem is they used glue on all neck surfaces including the outer surfaces, gluing the heel to the sides of the guitar.
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  #19  
Old 12-13-2016, 11:14 AM
Bax Burgess Bax Burgess is offline
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Invaluable thread. The tech parts, that is. Me, not so much.
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  #20  
Old 12-13-2016, 11:57 AM
CTGull CTGull is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bax Burgess View Post
Invaluable thread. The tech parts, that is. Me, not so much.
I resemble that remark! :?)

I think there are 2 problems with this joint. The neck joint gap is offset quite a bit from the 15th fret, maybe some people miss it. The gap is only 1/16". And they seemed to get glue everywhere, the first one I did last weekend took 8 steam sessions. I was learning but in the end I tore away a section of the side material because it was glued to the heel face! The steam can't get there!! I assume the heat gets there but no moisture can.

Another problem is this is a very shallow angle dovetail, only 10 degrees. On the FG-200 I finished last week I had the joint a little too tight, I was able to force it down the last 1/32" with a clamp. But when I added the hot hide glue the joint swelled a little. The clamp couldn't quite get it down (a very small fretboard gap), but the worst part is the heel ended up with a .010/.015 gap because the shallow angle of the dovetail allowed the heel to be pushed out. I was told you want a tight joint. That probably would have been fine with a normal joint with a 20 degree angle, but not the 10 degree of the Yamaha. Another lesson learned. I actually should take it apart and fix it, I overset the neck slightly and the saddle is a bit taller than I'd like.

Yea, a little of the mahogany tore out of the neck dovetail. I can fill with a little epoxy.
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Last edited by CTGull; 12-13-2016 at 12:06 PM.
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  #21  
Old 01-07-2019, 11:06 PM
judge70 judge70 is offline
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Here's a video of a Japanese luthier steaming the neck off a red label Yamaha FG-150. You can clearly see the shallow dovetail. Also notice, after the necks been removed, that when drilling the hole at the 15th fret, to get to the dovetail, he hit the part of the body. Maybe the 15th fret doesn't quite line up directly to the gap and people are missing it. There is an alternative view of the removal also. There is also a video of him showing the neck angle and straightness of the neck that also shows the approximation of where he drilled at the 15th fret. Also a video of him cleaning the the dovetail with steam. There also other videos on this guitar on his channel.

Videos don't seem to be working on here at the moment, so here are the links.

Neck remove for neck reset on YAMAHA FG-150
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0hlj5J_GX0

Neck remove for neck reset on YAMAHA FG-150 - alternative view
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkpR5ZtqB1s

Checking neck angle and straightness for neck reset on YAMAHA FG-150
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EjaU9bnmvE

Cleaning neck joint glue for neck reset on YAMAHA FG-150
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZAuyZXoTTw


https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...deyuki+higuchi











Last edited by judge70; 01-07-2019 at 11:21 PM.
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  #22  
Old 01-08-2019, 08:21 AM
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Here is an article I did on how to tell...
https://howardguitars.blogspot.com/2...ic-guitar.html
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  #23  
Old 01-08-2019, 11:03 AM
Monsoon1 Monsoon1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B. Howard View Post
Here is an article I did on how to tell...
https://howardguitars.blogspot.com/2...ic-guitar.html
Just to add my two cents here, Brian, but I've read every article i've seen you post and they are always highly informative. I recently read the one you did on guitar finishes that explained everything quite well.
Thanks, and keep on keeping on.
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  #24  
Old 01-08-2019, 06:23 PM
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Post is a revamped 3 years old topic, pretty sure they have worked it out by now.

Steve
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  #25  
Old 01-09-2019, 12:19 AM
Monsoon1 Monsoon1 is offline
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Originally Posted by mirwa View Post
Post is a revamped 3 years old topic, pretty sure they have worked it out by now.

Steve
Ah, but more than one can learn from a thread, grasshopper.
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  #26  
Old 01-09-2019, 10:57 AM
Mister PG Mister PG is offline
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Adding my .02 to this old discussion, iíve reset 2 FG75s and an FG180. I found some blue glue in 2 of them (both Taiwanese FGs). All came apart within less than 20 minutes of steaming, and the 180 was very tight. The heel cracked slightly.
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  #27  
Old 01-09-2019, 11:11 AM
CTGull CTGull is offline
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I've done 9 or 10 neck resets on vintage FG's. 60's to mid 70's. ALL of them were hide glue.

20 minutes is way too long. Do you use a neck jig to press the heel out? I do no more than 6 minutes before turning the steam off and re-evaluate the neck. Any more and the heel lamination cracks.

I also wiggle the neck to loosen the joint. Many of the joints were very tight, AND they use too much glue, also gluing the heel to the sides of the guitar where the steam can't get too.

I took the neck of a FG-110 3 days ago. It was the easiest I've ever done. 3 minutes of steaming, some wiggling, and it came right off. I never even tightened the neck jig. Probably would have come off without it. But most were very tight and the neck jig is the only way to get them apart.
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LOTS of vintage Yamaha FG's.
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  #28  
Old 01-09-2019, 11:20 AM
Mister PG Mister PG is offline
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Certainly not 20 minutes of steady steam... lots of wiggling, intermittent steam, a very strong pressure from the neck jig, and lots of determination was needed to get the one neck off. The others were very straightforward. In all cases they used a ton of glue, and the joint is very tight on the 180. All very much worth the work. Remarkable guitars!
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  #29  
Old 01-09-2019, 12:31 PM
CTGull CTGull is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister PG View Post
Certainly not 20 minutes of steady steam... lots of wiggling, intermittent steam, a very strong pressure from the neck jig, and lots of determination was needed to get the one neck off. The others were very straightforward. In all cases they used a ton of glue, and the joint is very tight on the 180. All very much worth the work. Remarkable guitars!
That sums it up very well!!!
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LOTS of vintage Yamaha FG's.
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