The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Acoustic Amplification

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 01-15-2019, 08:36 AM
Wengr Wengr is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Northeast Penna.
Posts: 1,926
Default DPA 4099G ok for internal use?

I have 4099G. Sounds great, as long as the factory clip remains mounted to the guitar, which is about 90 seconds. I continuously pops of to the point where it's unusable. So it makes me wonder if I could expect decent results if I mounted it internally. Or is there something different in the design of mics intended for internal use? The 4099G I believe is described as super cardoid.
The mounting and cabling would take some effort so is it a sound idea, or fools errand?
__________________
Sobell Model 1 ----- Martin D41
Sobell six string archtop ---- Lowden O25
Gibson ES-165 Herb Ellis ----Martin OM-21 Special
Eastman John Pisano ---- Franklin Prairie State
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-15-2019, 09:46 AM
JonnyBGood JonnyBGood is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Plymouth, UK
Posts: 193
Default

I had a 4099 briefly, used it for one gig. Like you I just couldn't get on with the attachment, it seemed way too flimsy. Also it just felt 'in the way' all the time.

Putting a mic inside a guitar opens up a whole world of problems (boom, boxy sound, feedback) and IMO they are best used as a subtle addition to a multi source system, in other words not your main source. If the mic is your main or only source you will struggle to get any decent volume before feedback and you will need a lot of EQ.

Some mics are designed to work internally (see Miniflex for example) and may have low end roll off and/or other clever stuff built into the electronics that accompany them to help things. Some are very simple electret cardio condenser mic designs though.

Personally I would not tamper with a 4099, and I do think trying an internal install would be a fools errand. It will not sound anywhere near as good as it is outside the guitar, they are expensive and not designed for this, you will harm the resale value if it's modified.
__________________
Jon

"The way nature seems to work is that it sends a messenger...the acoustic guitar needed to go in another direction, Michael Hedges became that messenger"
Tommy Emmanuel
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-15-2019, 10:46 AM
B. Adams B. Adams is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Vermillion, SD
Posts: 132
Default

I have 8 4099's, and I love them dearly. And while I don't often use them on acoustic guitars, I feel your pain. In December I was doing sound for a small tour where I had to attach a 4099 and a wireless pack to a mandolin and a ukulele, neither of which had a pickup or a strap. I used a cello mount gaff taped to the bout of the uke, and a violin mount gaff taped on the mando, with the packs gaffed on the back of each instrument. It didn't look too bad (unless they showed the back to the audience). If you like the 4099 on your guitar, a little gaff tape would help, assuming the finish of your guitar will handle it. Just don't leave it on for several months at a time or let it get wet.

Putting the 4099 inside might work, but it might take a lot of work to get a usable sound. I've never tried, so I can't say for sure. DPA makes a lot of mounts for the 4099, so I'm sure you could find a way to mount it. The accordion mount looks like it would work, but it involves screws, which might not be ideal. I'm sure you could glue or tape a mount, but I'm not sure how well that would hold up on the road. You'd probably also have to add an XLR connector to the side of your guitar, but it's certainly possible. I'm not sure I'd mess with it though.

Personally, my preference would be to either use the 4099 on the outside of your guitar, maybe with some tape to help out, or use something else entirely.

I love my 4099's and couldn't do a lot of my work without them, but based on the few times I've used them on acoustics I don't think they're ideal on guitar. I have a Tonedexter that I've been meaning to set up, which should give me a miked sound with a pickup. You might want to look at things like that instead of a 4099. Just my opinion.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-15-2019, 04:59 PM
Standicz Standicz is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 50
Default

I have an AKG 516ML inside my OM guitar, but as JonnyBGood noted, only to complement the other pickup, K&K pure mini. I had to drill a hole under the end pin and install a mini XLR socket there. I use two cables and mix the two signals. I'm still kinda testing it so it is WIP...oh, and I use soundhole cover of course.
__________________
Furch Om22CM
Furch D31SR
Aria Pro2 Bass
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-15-2019, 05:13 PM
Doug Young's Avatar
Doug Young Doug Young is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Mountain View, CA
Posts: 6,435
Default

The 4099 is basically the same mic as any of the DPA 4xxx series, as far as I know. The main difference is that it's in a container that makes it a hypercardiod. You could probably use it inside the guitar - the DPA 4061 is a very popular choice for internal guitar mics. But the key is to mount it somehow, and since the 4099 is designed to mount outside the guitar, I'm not sure how you'd do that, just physically. But if you're handy with mechanical stuff and wiring, you might be able to do it. Might be better to get a mic that's an easier fit, like the 4061, tho. I've also been using the Audix L5O.

As far as sound, inside the guitar never sounds as good as outside. An internal mic can be a great add-on to another pickup as a dual source system, not so effective by itself.

Do you really need the mic attached? (you move around when you play?). I like the sound of the 4099 and had no issues keeping it attached, but in the end, it's just an external mic, and for me, since I sit when performing, it's a lot easier to just put a mic on a stand in front of me.
__________________
Doug Young
----------------
Music on Pandora
You Tube Channel
website: http://www.dougyoungguitar.com
Fingerstyle Christmas Tunes: A DADGAD Christmas
CDs: Closing Time, Laurel Mill
Pickup tests: http://www.dougyoungguitar.com/pickuptests/
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-16-2019, 01:49 AM
Schau_ins_Regal Schau_ins_Regal is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 258
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by B. Adams View Post
DPA makes a lot of mounts for the 4099, so I'm sure you could find a way to mount it.
I think there is no good solution available. Thatīs why I made a custom holder once which was 3D-printed. It was fitted to the strap button at the neck heel and had a clip to hold the mic. That solution worked well.
__________________
Goodall Grand Concert Italian spruce/EIR
Taylor GS-mini mahogany

In process of construction:
0-12 (own build)
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Acoustic Amplification

Thread Tools



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:24 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=