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  #1  
Old 12-23-2018, 12:16 PM
sorefinger sorefinger is offline
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Default Carcassi piece help please!

Hi Guys
studying hard and totally stuck, can't ask my Teacher as he's away in Poland for Christmas.
Studying Carcassi Op 59. Scale of A minor Harmonic.
Working on Valse Lento [slow waltz] I get halfway through the piece and see there's a D# ???? As far as i'm aware this scale only has the Sharpened G?
Whats even more confusing is this, my Teacher never mentioned the D#, also, before i started the piece i went through the scale itself, then the scale study, followed by the prelude, no D# just the expected G #
I get to the piece and there it is!
Totally confused, i really want to progress and finish the piece for the new year, but i cant guess the music and really need some help.
Many Thanks Guys.
PS..The first D# is on the 17th Bar.

Last edited by sorefinger; 12-23-2018 at 12:18 PM. Reason: add more info
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Old 12-23-2018, 01:00 PM
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rick-slo rick-slo is offline
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It's a piece, not a scale study. It does not need to stick to just the diatonic notes of the scale. Read up if you wish on what accidental
notes are, chromatic scales, chord substitutions, etc..
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Last edited by rick-slo; 12-23-2018 at 07:49 PM.
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Old 12-23-2018, 05:43 PM
sorefinger sorefinger is offline
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Thank you for the reply.
I didnt understand all of your answer as i'm maybe a beginner/ intermediate player, though i very much appreciate any help.
My understanding was this, if there was only a G# in the A minor scale, all 'peices' in that scale would only use the G# and not other sharps randomly?
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Old 12-23-2018, 07:43 PM
smwink smwink is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sorefinger View Post
Thank you for the reply.
I didnt understand all of your answer as i'm maybe a beginner/ intermediate player, though i very much appreciate any help.
My understanding was this, if there was only a G# in the A minor scale, all 'peices' in that scale would only use the G# and not other sharps randomly?
Well, the other accidentals aren't random. Most likely, if you're seeing a D# in this case, it's probably part of a B7 chord, leading to an E7 chord, which then resolves to an Am. I'm not sure which waltz you're talking about in Carcassi's Op. 59--there are a lot of them. Are you working from the original method printing or a reprint?

Anyway, if your question is whether the D# is correct or a misprint, it's hard to say without knowing the specifics. But I suspect it's correct.
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Old 12-24-2018, 04:03 AM
sorefinger sorefinger is offline
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Hi
Its from Carcassi's original method book,
Page 32 Valse Lento in A minor Harmonic.
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Old 12-24-2018, 06:25 AM
smwink smwink is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sorefinger View Post
Hi
Its from Carcassi's original method book,
Page 32 Valse Lento in A minor Harmonic.
Which edition? Page number depends on which published edition you're working from. I'm still not clear on your question--do you just want to know whether the D# is intended?
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Old 12-24-2018, 10:33 AM
cdkrugjr cdkrugjr is offline
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Just play it. By the time you learn why it's there you can perfect it many times over ☺
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Old 12-27-2018, 10:20 AM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is offline
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The short answer is that most (Western culture) music has an identifiable key Center that is given by a key signature. Music often changes keys within a single piece. In some cases the key signature is changed mid piece while in other cases the key change is temporary and achieved through accidentals (sharps, flats and naturals).

A D# is found in the key of E, suggesting a temporary key change to E. E major is the “dominant” (fifth) of A, one of the most common of chord/harmonic progressions. The D# is found in a B major chord, the “dominant” of E, which is the dominant of A: B major is the fifth of the fifth of A. As others have said, that’s likely what the study you are working on is doing: it is a very common harmonic progression.

Last edited by charles Tauber; 12-27-2018 at 10:31 AM.
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Old 12-27-2018, 11:32 AM
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rick-slo rick-slo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charles Tauber View Post
The short answer is that most (Western culture) music has an identifiable key Center that is given by a key signature. Music often changes keys within a single piece. In some cases the key signature is changed mid piece while in other cases the key change is temporary and achieved through accidentals (sharps, flats and naturals).

A D# is found in the key of E, suggesting a temporary key change to E. E major is the “dominant” (fifth) of A, one of the most common of chord/harmonic progressions. The D# is found in a B major chord, the “dominant” of E, which is the dominant of A: B major is the fifth of the fifth of A. As others have said, that’s likely what the study you are working on is doing: it is a very common harmonic progression.
I would not consider each time an accidental note occurs being a key change. That would be quite confusing. The tonic, dominate chords etc. do not change.
It's just a note that is not in the key signature, often a chromatic note occurring in the melody line. Also in many cases there is no key signature that exists
that would fit accidental notes, for example in Carcassi piece there is no key
signature specified for A-B-C-D#-E-F-G# or for that matter A-B-C-D-E-F-G#.
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Last edited by rick-slo; 12-27-2018 at 05:05 PM.
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  #10  
Old 12-27-2018, 11:16 PM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rick-slo View Post
I would not consider each time an accidental note occurs being a key change.
Nor would I. Nor did I mean to imply it did.
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  #11  
Old 12-30-2018, 04:19 PM
Guitar Slim II Guitar Slim II is offline
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As someone else pointed out, this is a piece, not a scale. As such, it's allowed to use accidentals and chords from outside the home key. Altered chords, borrowed chords, key changes, etc. are all common in music, and many require extra accidentals not found in the key signature.

To understand where your D# sharp comes from, you would need to do a harmonic analysis: figure out what chord or key the D# belongs to, and what its function is. To do that, you need to understand not just scales, but chords, progressions, keys and modulations. It sounds like you need a little more study and experience in these areas in order to really understand where the extra accidentals in a tune come from.

In the meantime, "play the ink", as a teacher of mine used to say, and try to play it like a pro.
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