Help re: Vol control from Di to House - Page 2

lschwart · #16 05-29-2018, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jricc

Ok here goes,this is for guitar and vocals. This bar/restaurant is huge, it has 6 power amps in 2 different locations. They power approx 30 6.5" speakers. I am in a different location than the amp. Usually, I take a 1/4" cable out of my Carvin 6 channel head from the monitor out, that goes to a remote box that connects into the house. I can control the volume of the whole place from the monitor out vol control. I also use 1 10" passive speaker for sound near me in the bar area. But now, I have to send my Carvin head in for service. So I need a backup.

My temporary solution will be using my Fishman Artist loudbox. I will take the xlr mix out of the Fishman to a 1/4" with converter into the house. That would work, but I wouldnt have any control of the volume. I want to have a control for the volume of the house (like with my monitor out of the Carvin) between the xlr out and the 1/4" in. So today i tried the xlr out of the fishman and connected the 1/4" converter/adapter on the other end. I put the 1/4" into a Behringer Adi21 Acoustic pedal's input. Then took a 1/4" out of the Behringer and into a powered speaker. I was able to control the volume of the powered speaker with the Behringer Adi pedal. I know signals are unbalanced but it seemed to work. Whew, long winded, I hope u can understand all this. Thanks Louis

That makes sense, since the pedal is actually a preamp, so it's boosting the signal, not just attenuating it. So it's strong enough even though it's not balanced. As long as you don't have to go too far at the venue it should work more or less the same way. Not ideal, but if it works, it works. Might be noisy, though. I hope you can test it before you have to set up and play!

Louis

The Kid! · #17 05-29-2018, 09:14 PM

Maybe use a small mixer in between. Might that work in this scenario?

jricc · #18 05-29-2018, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Kid!

Maybe use a small mixer in between. Might that work in this scenario?

Yes that was going to be my next step. Since it's only a temporary fix, i was trying to use what i already own.

lschwart · #19 05-29-2018, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jricc

Yes that was going to be my next step. Since it's only a temporary fix, i was trying to use what i already own.

That would be ideal: a small mixer to send a balanced mix to the house amps with an aux feed to send to your Loudbox or powered speaker for monitoring. The A&H ZED10FX, for example, has a convenient attenuator switch for the main outputs for just this sort of submixing purpose.

Louis

MikeBmusic · #20 05-30-2018, 07:13 AM

I find it very strange that the 'house system' has no controls at all - volume or EQ - how exactly does it split the signal you're giving it - 1/4" or XLR and send to it to 6 amps all over the place? This distribution system would have to be balanced, or the noise would get bad. I suspect the owner/manager doesn't understand the system and relies on the talent to do it on their end.

Nymuso · #21 05-30-2018, 07:15 AM

Volume pedal

jricc · #22 05-30-2018, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeBmusic

I find it very strange that the 'house system' has no controls at all - volume or EQ - how exactly does it split the signal you're giving it - 1/4" or XLR and send to it to 6 amps all over the place? This distribution system would have to be balanced, or the noise would get bad. I suspect the owner/manager doesn't understand the system and relies on the talent to do it on their end.

To answer your question, I have no idea how it works... It was a small place and they grew and grew and just kept adding speakers and how it's all wired I have no idea.... There are volume controls on all the power amps, but no eq. On one side of the restaurant there are 3 power amps and 1 preamp for that side. On the other (bar side) there are 3 power amps and that is the power for that side. There is a 1/4" remote box in the middle of the 2 places that the performer plugs a monitor out signal into. It's a crazy system but for the most part it works. Not high fidelity, but it works. Yes the management depends on the performer to control things.

The Kid! · #23 05-30-2018, 10:27 AM

I play a couple places like this. It's probably their radio playback system. They probably have different zones that they can control, but not much EQ,... if any.

My guess is they most likely use RCA jacks into the system and they probably compress the hell out of any incoming signal to keep from live music harming the speakers.

If you get any buzz, try lifting the ground.

jricc · #24 05-30-2018, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Kid!

I play a couple places like this. It's probably their radio playback system. They probably have different zones that they can control, but not much EQ,... if any.

My guess is they most likely use RCA jacks into the system and they probably compress the hell out of any incoming signal to keep from live music harming the speakers.

If you get any buzz, try lifting the ground.

Thanks The Kid

The Kid! · #25 05-30-2018, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jricc

Thanks The Kid

Sure thing!

I'd bring a small powered speaker for a floor monitor and mix myself. I'd send the same mix from the left side of the board, using the gain on the back of the floor monitor as my personal monitor volume, and the right side to FOH.

EDIT:
I'd high pass everything too. Those small speakers won't be able to handle much low end.

The Kid! · #26 06-03-2018, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jricc

Thanks The Kid

Hey man, did you ever get things at the venue sorted out? Did the mixer work?

jricc · #27 06-04-2018, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Kid!

Hey man, did you ever get things at the venue sorted out? Did the mixer work?

I used the Behringer ADi21. It worked ok, i think i had may have had the Level on the Behringer set a little high and it distorted. When I backed it off, it was better. From where I was playing, I couldn't tell what it sounded like,and had to rely on the bar staff to let me know what it sounded like. Until my Carvin gets fixed, I WILL use a mixer instead of the Behringer Di. I'll have better control using the monitor out of the mixer.
Thanks for asking

The Kid! · #28 06-04-2018, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jricc

I used the Behringer ADi21. It worked ok, i think i had may have had the Level on the Behringer set a little high and it distorted. When I backed it off, it was better. From where I was playing, I couldn't tell what it sounded like,and had to rely on the bar staff to let me know what it sounded like. Until my Carvin gets fixed, I WILL use a mixer instead of the Behringer Di. I'll have better control using the monitor out of the mixer.
Thanks for asking

Right on. Gain staging is so important.

Sometimes I run my looper and take a walk out front. Or have someone else play through my system and take a listen.

lkingston · #29 06-04-2018, 01:54 PM

I still think the passive volume control I linked to earlier is the simplest/best solution.

lschwart · #30 06-04-2018, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lkingston

I still think the passive volume control I linked to earlier is the simplest/best solution.

Possibly, but only if the initial volume coming out of the amp's DI output is too loud. That unit is only an attenuator, so it can't make the signal louder if that's what's needed.

Louis