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Old 06-07-2022, 07:12 PM
Steve DeRosa Steve DeRosa is offline
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Default Epiphone, Guild, Gretsch, D'Angelico, and Silver & Horland - tales of old NYC



Saw this WW II-era pic in my FB news feed, and it brought back some memories of the long-gone "old" NYC music business other than 48th Street's "Music Row"; so, in some sort of chronological order and with a few related personal anecdotes, here are some of my own recollections of this transitional period in guitar history:

Although I was too young to participate in the 1950’s NYC music scene (I was born in 1953) my father came up during the Big Band era and, while never having learned an instrument himself, was an avid jazz fan who spoke often of the luminaries of the day. Having grown up in Lower Manhattan (not too far from the Bowery, more about which to follow) he was already very familiar with the Epiphone name when, as a wide-eyed nine-year-old in search of my first guitar, he pointed them out to me in the East 14th Street “Pawnshop Row” (also long gone BTW) windows and commented on their tonal merits (“They’re a little big for you right now, but those old Epiphones are real boomers” - truer words were never spoken); while he undoubtedly acquired his first-hand knowledge as much from the bandstands as from some of the younger Italian craftsmen who lived in the neighborhood when he was in his late-teens/early-twenties, he was unaware of the then-emerging Guild name/origins - until a guitar-playing colleague at the steamship company where he worked in the early-60's introduced him not only to the brand, but also where to purchase them at the 40%-off “pro discount” reserved for card-carrying members of AFM Local 802 or recognized teachers (he was both) at the 48th Street shops. Meanwhile, across the river in Brooklyn...

My maternal grandparents lived in a brownstone in the shadow of the Williamsburg Bridge, a mere three blocks from the Brooklyn Gretsch factory and just down the block from their South 5th Street drum warehouse. My grandfather – an inveterate tinkerer and amateur violinist in younger days – was aware of what was being produced in the big white building at 60 Broadway long before I was, and when my time came to acquire an electric guitar he took it upon himself to investigate the place; after being given the factory tour by someone he described as “a nice older Italian fella named Tom” (one of the senior foremen, and most likely also a refugee from the 14th Street Epiphone operation that provided the initial labor force for Guild as well as Favilla) and receiving his imprimatur at our next visit, I would become the proud owner of a brand-new ‘64 Gretsch 6117 Double Anniversary – which I purchased at a certain not-so-little and well-off-the-beaten-path music store in Lower Manhattan, a short walk from the Bowery and along the former route of the Third Avenue El (which was demolished in 1955)…

Long before the Sam Ash big-box chain would become the sole surviving remnant of a once-thriving New York City instrument dealer/manufacturer scene, local musicians “in the know” and looking for the deals the 48th Street stores would only extend to the big names would gravitate to Park Row, a somewhat gritty stretch located in the shadows of the el as well as a massive, prison-like post-Civil War warehouse that would be demolished in the late-60's to make way for NYPD Headquarters at One Police Plaza. While there were several retail operations quartered there over the years (along with the pawn shops that wound their way up the Bowery and 3rd Avenue, terminating at East 14th Street), the sole remaining music stores when I was looking for my guitar(s) in the early-60's were Harry Newcorn (who would, in his declining years, take a job as a cashier in the 48th Street Sam Ash store) and Silver & Horland, the older of the two (having TMK commenced operations at the beginning of the 20th century) and a legend among New York musicians. Far more than the small storefront seen in the above photo, it was in fact a four-story operation housed in a circa-1880 commercial building with the topmost floors (as well as an existing structure at the rear of the street-level retail floor, most likely annexed sometime before WW II) serving as warehouse space, and the second floor (with a tall, floor-width picture window providing a splendid view of the aforementioned el) containing the open-floorplan repair shop...

In terms of fretted instruments, while Newcorn was handling “open” and jobber lines almost exclusively by that time, it was long- and widely-known that Silver & Horland was the place to go for the best deals on the NYC “hometown brands” - Paramount, Orpheum, Epiphone, Gretsch, Favilla, D’Angelico (Kenmare Street was a brisk ten-minute walk from the store – and there are several notations of instruments sold through S&H in John D’Angelico’s handwritten log) and, in the postwar years, Guild, Ampeg (including the British-made Ampeg/Burns guitars and basses), Premier, as well as the first wave of early-60's Japanese imports (many of whose USA distributors were in fact based in Lower Manhattan and the industrial sections of Brooklyn, just across the East River). Given their location, their strong support for local manufacturers, and the long-standing Epiphone franchise it would indeed have been logical for them to take on Guild early in the game, even as Epiphone was going into inexorable decline with the transfer of production to Philadelphia in 1953...

When I was in the process of purchasing my Gretsch in late-1963/early-1964 my father and I were (thanks to the magic of a business card provided by Dad’s aforementioned buddy) personally escorted to the upstairs stockrooms by Nat Silver himself to make our selection. Amongst the walls of silver and two-tone gray/charcoal cases containing what appeared to be the entire Gretsch line (including some late-50's NOS pieces that in retrospect I should have grabbed ) – they were, as I stated, a long-time major dealer – there were about a half-dozen old cases, which in later years I would come to recognize as New York-era Epiphone items; the fact that they were still sitting in the stockroom - as much as a decade after they first saw the light of day - spoke volumes of both the quality of Guild’s initial product vis-a-vis their longer-established and (at the time) highly-regarded progenitor, and the increasing importance of Gretsch beginning in the mid-50's...

As to the Silver & Horland and Harry Newcorn operations, they would be forced to vacate their Park Row premises within a few years when the entire block (including the warehouse mentioned above) was razed to make way for construction of One Police Plaza, as well as several office buildings. While Harry Newcorn never resumed business under his own name to my knowledge, Silver & Horland would relocate twice in the ensuing years – first to Warren and Church Streets, about a half-mile from the original store (where they would take on the Fender and Ovation lines as well - one of the first local dealers to carry the latter), and eventually finish out their days on 48th Street as a custom shop (producing some of the first “partscaster” guitars) and used-instrument dealer before folding in the early-80's...

As to the sturdily-built gentlemen standing in the doorways of both S&H and their next-door neighbor - we didn't talk about things like that...
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Last edited by Steve DeRosa; 08-17-2022 at 07:45 PM.
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Old 06-07-2022, 08:37 PM
Thumbwrapper Thumbwrapper is offline
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Thanks for this post. Loved everything about!
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Old 06-08-2022, 08:49 AM
Al Mojo Al Mojo is offline
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Very interesting first hand recollections! Thanks for posting.

You mentioned NY made Premier guitars. After watching Eddie Fontaine play his cool 2-pickup Premier archtop on "The Girl Can't Help It" I wondered what happened to this company.
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Old 06-08-2022, 09:12 AM
tbeltrans tbeltrans is offline
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Very interesting read, as usual, Steve. By the way, I was also born in 1953, but in Queens. We moved to California when I was going into first or second grade, but I still have memories of getting lost in Macy's, visiting my grandparents' apartment, and riding the subway.

I have been back to NYC over the years when working on projects with AT&T and other companies as an engineer. Unfortunately, in those situations, the focus is on the project, so not much time to do any more than visit a few relatives who still lived in the area.

Tony
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Old 06-08-2022, 08:27 PM
Steve DeRosa Steve DeRosa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Mojo View Post
...You mentioned NY made Premier guitars. After watching Eddie Fontaine play his cool 2-pickup Premier archtop on "The Girl Can't Help It" I wondered what happened to this company.
TMK they were gone by the late-60's - certainly by the early-70's - as they were unable to compete with the new-generation "lawsuit" imports on price, and their styling/technology/tonality was becoming dated. I remember both the instruments and amplifiers (including an outboard tube/spring reverb unit in a walnut-vinyl "cheesebox" cabinet, that actually looked kinda classy in an early/mid-60's way) being a mainstay of the ubiquitous NYC neighborhood music stores which, with a few notable exceptions, dealt in the above-mentioned "open" (non-franchised) and jobber lines; in this setting they were, along with the National guitars/Supro amps and the better Harmony/Kay electrics, at the top of the food chain - step-ups for intermediate players and utility gear for local semi-pros on a budget - while the downline Chicago-label models, Danelectro, and the first-wave Japanese imports (supplemented by the occasional European instrument, usually Framus IME) held down the low end. Not too many of the guitars seem to have survived, and although I still see the occasional Premier amp (if you're a tube-amp junkie who can't afford a similar-vintage Fender or Beatle-era UK-built Vox combo these can be real bargains, with a lo-fi tonal vibe and legion-hall polka-party visuals all their own) FYI the reverb box seems to command hefty prices for essentially second-tier gear...
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Old 06-08-2022, 09:16 PM
Al Mojo Al Mojo is offline
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Thanks for the cool TMK info, Steve .. much appreciated!
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Old 06-09-2022, 01:31 PM
OldFrets OldFrets is offline
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The Premier brand lasted through the '70s, possibly into the '80s - but by that point it was a shadow of its former self. The brand was owned by Peter Sorkin, a distributor who also appears to have started or at least owned the Multivox company. Multivox built Premier amps and possibly some of the solidbody guitars, but the majority of Premier guitars were built by United Guitars of Jersey City, at least into the mid '60s. After that, Premier increasingly turned to overseas parts; the bodies were probably sourced from Italy, while pickups and other hardware came from Japan. By the early '70s they were importing whole generic Fender copies from Japan.

The whole brand was Sorkin's attempt to create a unique product, but they didn't have the resources or energy to sustain it, so it gradually became just another slapped on a generic import.
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Old 06-09-2022, 02:23 PM
tbeltrans tbeltrans is offline
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Unfortunately, my knowledge of these "bygone era" instruments is non-existent since I didn't get started with guitar until much later. So this thread is educational for me.

Tony
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Old 06-09-2022, 04:52 PM
Steve DeRosa Steve DeRosa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldFrets View Post
The Premier brand lasted through the '70s, possibly into the '80s - but by that point it was a shadow of its former self. The brand was owned by Peter Sorkin, a distributor who also appears to have started or at least owned the Multivox company. Multivox built Premier amps and possibly some of the solidbody guitars, but the majority of Premier guitars were built by United Guitars of Jersey City, at least into the mid '60s. After that, Premier increasingly turned to overseas parts; the bodies were probably sourced from Italy, while pickups and other hardware came from Japan. By the early '70s they were importing whole generic Fender copies from Japan...
They must have been extremely generic, because I can't recall ever seeing a new Premier-branded guitar/amp - of whatever origin - after the late-60's here in their NYC hometown. From what I remember in the Guitar Player magazine ads Multivox had a pretty broad and diverse lineup in those days, when the "lawsuit" instruments were running roughshod over the low- and-midrange market (and the best of them had the big-name/big-buck American brands reaching for the Maalox and Imodium ), and I suspect that they were promoting their other lines more heavily, while keeping the Premier name as a nod to those long-standing small-town dealerships for whom the marque represented their high-end offerings. FWIW the best-known legacy of the Sorkin operation was the aluminum "bow-tie" Bigsby bridge that bears his name, fitted to '50s/60s USA Premiers with the Bigsby tailpiece, and often seen on other instruments of the period:

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Old 06-09-2022, 05:22 PM
OldFrets OldFrets is offline
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Indeed, by the mid '70s they looked like every other low-end Strat, Les Paul and Martin clone - nowhere near as nice as the so-called "lawsuit" guitars.

Premier never had the widest range of guitar models - one solidbody and three or four archtops depending on the year. They filled out the catalog by listing each body with different number of pickups as a separate item. There were also a couple of United-made Dreadnoughts from the late '50s through the '60s. The amp lineup was a bit wider in its range, but amp sales seem to have dropped off considerably around the early '60s. However, Sorkin mainly used the Premier name on more expensive instruments (relatively speaking); they sold similar, but somewhat cheaper, instruments under other names such as Orpheum and Marvel.

Premier instruments were not sold through brick-and-mortar dealers - you could only get them through mail-order catalogs.
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Old 06-09-2022, 10:21 PM
Steve DeRosa Steve DeRosa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldFrets View Post
...Premier instruments were not sold through brick-and-mortar dealers - you could only get them through mail-order catalogs.
Don't know where you were located back then, but I distinctly remember Premier gear at some of the local mom-&-pop stores here in the NYC area: I personally A/B tested one of the aforementioned reverb units (brand-new with tags BTW, not used) against its erstwhile Danelectro competitor in 1966 (had my first real band then), I saw a couple of the electrics (including a rare Orpheum which you mention - a thin-body example of which I actually played, and which was unquestionably of foreign origin) in some of the Brooklyn music stores I frequented in my early-teens, and one of the Premier amps (I don't recall which model) was a contender when I bought my top-panel/no 'verb Ampeg Rocket at Silver & Horland back in '64, so apparently at least some of the dealers were able to source them for retail sale - not surprising considering sales were dropping off by the mid-60's as you state, and a physical presence at the local level would allow for a hands-on assessment that a blind catalog purchase would not...
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Old 06-17-2022, 06:23 AM
JGinNJ JGinNJ is offline
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The OP has 10 years on me, but I grew up in the NJ 'burbs, and I remember visiting 48th street. It was Candyland, compared to the stock in my local music stores.

I was just as into trumpet then (and still am!), so I went to Giardinelli's, which only exists as a low-end band instrument line now. I remember the autographed pictures of famous players on the walls.
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Old 06-17-2022, 03:27 PM
Steve DeRosa Steve DeRosa is offline
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The OP has 10 years on me, but I grew up in the NJ 'burbs, and I remember visiting 48th Street. It was Candyland, compared to the stock in my local music stores...
If you're ten years behind me, unfortunately you came along well past the heyday of both 48th Street and the NYC music scene in general ; I'm just old enough to remember, when I was shopping for my first electric guitar in late-1963/early-1964, the "TRADE ONLY" signs on the gated/locked doors to many of the "Music Row" shops that had the really primo stuff - and they meant it, as you would not be buzzed in unless you were a card-carrying AFM 802 member, a recognized teacher, or a student of same. You might also be surprised to learn that the no-longer-extant (RIP) 40% "pro discount" you probably remember fondly was, until the early-70's (or unless you knew where to shop... ) just that - non-AFM teachers received 30% off, while all others paid full list price - and you can thank Sam Ash for breaking the pattern here in NYC, first in Brooklyn and later on "Music Row" when they opened their 48th Street store (Silver & Horland was a single-store operation and, as such, lacked the geographic reach, clout, and buying power Sam Ash was beginning to amass when it started opening branches in the early/mid-1960's). By the same token, their policies served to force a fair number of franchised neighborhood music stores out of business by the early-70's, when they could no longer compete with what would eventually become one of the two major forces in the American music-sales industry - which leads me to:

FYI Brooklyn in the last of its glory days was not unlike your memories of the Jersey suburbs: albeit generally more densely concentrated population-wise, our local mom-&-pop music stores also dealt mostly in non-franchise "open" and jobber lines and, when they became available, the first wave of Japanese imports - FWIW as a franchised marque Gretsch was less ubiquitous than one might be led to believe for a "hometown" brand, the former New York-era Epiphone franchisees were given first preference when Gibson assumed control, Guild was slowly beginning to make its presence known (mostly in the electric - and later the acoustic 12-string - market) through a small network of authorized dealers, and those folkies who couldn't afford a Martin often turned to Favilla. Thing is that these were also the days of the Yellow Pages, NYC Transit fare was 20 cents when I was in my early teens, and if you knew how to use the bus transfer system (as all us real Brooklyn kids did) and started out early in the morning, you could cover all of the first-tier music stores in a single Saturday - block out three or four such days and you could visit anyplace worth seeing - get home in time for dinner, and not spend more than 60 cents on the whole deal. Perhaps it was these experiences (along with those in the OP) that left me jaded when I started visiting the "new" 48th Street regularly in the early-70's - by then we had our own mini-Music Row centered around the Kings Highway Sam Ash store (five different dealers in a three-block area) so I had long since seen/played it all; I would, however, soon discover Matt Umanov's original store when I began hitting open mics in Greenwich Village around that time - and there were also a couple of guys in Staten Island, who went by the humorous name of the Mandolin Brothers, trying to get their own high-end/vintage business off the ground - but that's a story for another day...
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