What is the D-28 of the carbon fiber world?

[Earl49]

Dave, you can order any Rainsong without electronics, hence avoiding the barn door. That would be the WS-1100. They just are not usually stocked that way. Rainsongs are consistent enough in build quality and set-up that ordering sight unseen is not much of a risk. N2 refers to the newer neck shape, with a truss rod. N1 is the original slimmer neck shape, w/o truss rod. The mold wore out, as I understand it, plus they were getting requests for truss rods.

They are labor intensive and the carbon fiber materials are more expensive than the wood parts that goes into even Martin guitars. Plus the necessary molds and tooling are quite expensive too. When I bought my WS-1000 it was the most I had paid for a guitar at that time. But it was well worth it, since I lived in Alaska (extremely dry winters, widely variable temperatures). It was the only guitar that could be left out on a stand for handy play.

IMO, CF guitars would be far more popular despite the price if they were stocked by more dealers. But just like you, many players have never met one in person.

[Ted @ LA Guitar Sales]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

Being completely ignorant on the topic, does the Rainson WS1000 N2 come without the "barn door" preamp?

Also, I'm a bit surprised at the price. I understand that workmaship in CF is very high, but I would have expected the cost of entry to be much lower for a quality guitar.

Perhaps that is why they aren't more popular? The cost of the CF equivalent to the iconic stature of the D-28, costs more than a D-28. I guess many would opt for the D-28...

As Earl pointed out, the cost of making a CF guitar is much greater than building a wood acoustic. Material alone will run you 2-3 times that of what goes in to a D-28, and while a wooden mold to build a D-28 clone can be put together with a few dollars worth of scrap wood, an aluminum mold to make a proper CF guitar will set you back tens of thousands of dollars. Given that one mold makes only one guitar per day, I am not surprised we don't have more CF builders out there. One top guy from a large company that builds wood guitars told me that a Rainsong with their logo on it would need to have a street price of $4000.

Speaking of price, last I checked the D-28 carried a higher list price than the Rainsong WS-1000N2. Yes, I am well aware of the deep discounts forum members can get on Martins, but those discounts come from the pockets of dealers, not Martin. In fact Martin gets paid more for a D-28 than what Rainsong gets for a WS-1000N2.

...I think if I played in less hospitable climates, or did many outdoor shows, I might be more inclined to give one of these a try.

I kind of wish there was a used one available locally to take a flyer on. Or, better yet, a buddy with one. ;-)

I'm doing a few shows and festivals this summer, and I could see one coming in handy.

Clearly folks have been performing with wood guitars for over a hundred years without having their guitars fall apart, but once you experience the piece of mind that comes from traveling/gigging with a CF guitar, it will be hard to back.

[Earl49]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

.....I kind of wish there was a used one available locally to take a flyer on. Or, better yet, a buddy with one. ;-).....

The fact that they come up for sale used so infrequently is a sign that those of us who have CF guitars keep them. My WS-1000 will absolutely be the last guitar to ever sell, and I own some killer high-end Martin and Taylor wood guitars.

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by Ted @ LA Guitar Sales

As Earl pointed out, the cost of making a CF guitar is much greater than building a wood acoustic. Material alone will run you 2-3 times that of what goes in to a D-28, and while a wooden mold to build a D-28 clone can be put together with a few dollars worth of scrap wood, an aluminum mold to make a proper CF guitar will set you back tens of thousands of dollars. Given that one mold makes only one guitar per day, I am not surprised we don't have more CF builders out there. One top guy from a large company that builds wood guitars told me that a Rainsong with their logo on it would need to have a street price of $4000.

Speaking of price, last I checked the D-28 carried a higher list price than the Rainsong WS-1000N2. Yes, I am well aware of the deep discounts forum members can get on Martins, but those discounts come from the pockets of dealers, not Martin. In fact Martin gets paid more for a D-28 than what Rainsong gets for a WS-1000N2.




Clearly folks have been performing with wood guitars for over a hundred years without having their guitars fall apart, but once you experience the piece of mind that comes from traveling/gigging with a CF guitar, it will be hard to back.

Very informative post Ted. CF must be a labor of love for the builders if the economics are skewed towards wooden guitars by that much. The specifics of the molds make a great deal of sense to me. There is a traditional and CF dealer not far from my house. He carries some of these brands, and I did make a point to play a few of them during one visit.

My experience was that the lower priced instruments he sold, which would be more inline with my budget for a travel/backup/camping guitar, did not have the tonal variety. They played very easily. So, I did't bother to pursue it. On the other hand, a well respected player in our area gigs with a Rainsong of some sort and it sounds lovely amplified.

[Ted @ LA Guitar Sales]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

Very informative post Ted. CF must be a labor of love for the builders if the economics are skewed towards wooden guitars by that much. The specifics of the molds make a great deal of sense to me. There is a traditional and CF dealer not far from my house. He carries some of these brands, and I did make a point to play a few of them during one visit.

My experience was that the lower priced instruments he sold, which would be more inline with my budget for a travel/backup/camping guitar, did not have the tonal variety. They played very easily. So, I did't bother to pursue it. On the other hand, a well respected player in our area gigs with a Rainsong of some sort and it sounds lovely amplified.

My pleasure, Dave.

I do think one has to have some passion to be in the guitar building business, regardless of the material, but to build high quality CF guitars one definitely has to make a serious financial commitment as well.

About four years ago, good friend who is in a Celtic band got tired of repairing her Martin, so she came in to try some of the CF guitars I've been raving about. After a few hours of playing everything from Emerald to CA, she went home with a Rainsong CO-WS1000N2, and she has never regretted the purchase. She bought it for stage use only, thinking she would continue to record with her Martin, but as it turned out, the Rainsong makes a rather nice studio acoustic as well.

[billder99]

For my tastes, the epitome of CF guitar tone comes from the Rainsong WS-1000 body, all carbon fiber models, either N1 or N2 neck.

[shardy53]

I vote for the RS DR-1000. I recently purchased an S-DR1000N2 which is the Hybrid without the gloss finish or fancy rosette. It replaced my Martin HD-40 Tom Petty that spent a lot of time back at the Martin factory to correct problems. It has great bass,tone, volume and plays easily. I know it doesn't sound and smell like wood but apparently I am the only one who notices any difference. Everyone who hears my two Rainsongs love the sound. I for one with never look back.
Steve