The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Other Musical Instruments

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #16  
Old 04-28-2021, 02:36 PM
Br1ck Br1ck is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: San Jose, Ca
Posts: 6,943
Default

Everyone at some point will need to know how to intonate their mandolin, but not every string change. My home build developed a common hump at the neck/body joint after a couple of years and I had to level the frets. There is such a fine line between perfect and buzzing. At least once a year, I do a thorough cleaning and have the bridge off. Pay attention that the bridge saddle contact point is right at the forward edge. It took me a while to realize I had a string buzzing because it wasn't.

The other thing guitar players need to know is your fingers need to arch more to clear the strings. You need to be more on your fingertips.
That and come in at an angle more like a violinist. Quite a lot of difference with the fretting hand. The picking hand just has to tighten up. Mandolin has improved my guitar picking.
__________________
2007 Martin D 35 Custom
1970 Guild D 35
1965 Epiphone Texan
2011 Santa Cruz D P/W
Pono OP 30 D parlor
Pono OP12-30
Pono MT uke
Goldtone Paul Beard squareneck resophonic
Fluke tenor ukulele
Boatload of home rolled telecasters

"Shut up and play ur guitar" Frank Zappa
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 04-28-2021, 02:37 PM
Br1ck Br1ck is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: San Jose, Ca
Posts: 6,943
Default

Everyone at some point will need to know how to intonate their mandolin, but not every string change. My home build developed a common hump at the neck/body joint after a couple of years and I had to level the frets. There is such a fine line between perfect and buzzing. At least once a year, I do a thorough cleaning and have the bridge off. Pay attention that the bridge saddle contact point is right at the forward edge. It took me a while to realize I had a string buzzing because it wasn't.

The other thing guitar players need to know is your fingers need to arch more to clear the strings. You need to be more on your fingertips.
That and come in at an angle more like a violinist. Quite a lot of difference with the fretting hand. The picking hand just has to tighten up. Mandolin has improved my guitar picking.

A Charmed Life pick will make your highs stronger and fatter.
__________________
2007 Martin D 35 Custom
1970 Guild D 35
1965 Epiphone Texan
2011 Santa Cruz D P/W
Pono OP 30 D parlor
Pono OP12-30
Pono MT uke
Goldtone Paul Beard squareneck resophonic
Fluke tenor ukulele
Boatload of home rolled telecasters

"Shut up and play ur guitar" Frank Zappa
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 04-30-2021, 08:01 AM
DungBeatle DungBeatle is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Idaho
Posts: 324
Default

Well, work on this Mandolin just got a little more involved. The endpin fell out while I was putting on a new strap. According to the web this is common and I verified it with Breedlove service (they were very nice). But when I looked into the hole I found the endpin was only glued to the tailpiece. The hole underneath seems to be made for a pickup (1/2") and there's nothing for the endpin to set. So I figure I'll buy a pickup and install it. Never ends... Thanks for all the advice!
~Bob
__________________
Some stuff...
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 05-04-2021, 02:02 PM
DungBeatle DungBeatle is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Idaho
Posts: 324
Default

So I removed all the strings, the tailpiece and the bridge. I marked the bridge location with blue tape but after I removed the bridge, the tan lines were obvious so I removed the tape, then I could give a coat of wax. I installed a K&K Mandolin Twin, that was a bit of a chore because the existing hole was too large, but I fixed it. Then I installed new strings - Thomastik flat wounds. It's all tuned up and now all I have to do is learn how to play!
~Bob
__________________
Some stuff...
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 05-04-2021, 02:53 PM
rmp rmp is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 6,897
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by M19 View Post
I watched a video where the guy used a SHARPIE to mark where the bridge went. I almost retched.
I've seen worse, a line scored to the top with an All.
__________________
Ray

Gibson SJ200
Taylor Grand Symphony
Taylor 514CE-NY
Taylor 814CE Deluxe V-Class
Guild F1512
Alvarez DY74 Snowflake ('78)
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 05-06-2021, 03:18 PM
Br1ck Br1ck is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: San Jose, Ca
Posts: 6,943
Default

Thing is, necks can shift and intonation spot will change. It's not that hard to use a tuner. While strings are off, make sure your bridge fits the top.
__________________
2007 Martin D 35 Custom
1970 Guild D 35
1965 Epiphone Texan
2011 Santa Cruz D P/W
Pono OP 30 D parlor
Pono OP12-30
Pono MT uke
Goldtone Paul Beard squareneck resophonic
Fluke tenor ukulele
Boatload of home rolled telecasters

"Shut up and play ur guitar" Frank Zappa
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 06-29-2021, 05:14 PM
Bill Ashton Bill Ashton is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 650
Default Mando intonation

I am certainly no expert on this, but had my luthier at Kaufman Kamp change out the tailpiece on my Kentucky for one more "user friendly." He got one from Stewart/McDonald, which is much better than the pressed steel OEM one.

He said the bridge location on mine was off, though I had never heard a problem...but I am just a beginner. He said the bridge should be right at the points of the F-holes, and every one I saw at Kamp was, though I know the OP's does not have that style of F-hole.

He also said the bridge base should sit firmly on the top and that the bridge saddle itself should be sitting on the base...not suspended on its threaded posts...this being best for transmitting string vibration into the top.

Just passing the info on for discussion, not experienced enough with mandos to know any different...but gotta say, mine sounds a lot better
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 06-30-2021, 06:06 AM
Mandobart Mandobart is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Washington State
Posts: 5,424
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DungBeatle View Post
Well, work on this Mandolin just got a little more involved. The endpin fell out while I was putting on a new strap. According to the web this is common and I verified it with Breedlove service (they were very nice). But when I looked into the hole I found the endpin was only glued to the tailpiece. The hole underneath seems to be made for a pickup (1/2") and there's nothing for the endpin to set. So I figure I'll buy a pickup and install it. Never ends... Thanks for all the advice!
~Bob
The endpin is likely a tapered fit just like you find on violins, violas and many guitars. To install a standard 1/4" jack you need to carefully ream it out to a straight 1/2" hole. To reinstall a tapered endpin just use a drop of hide glue or titebond.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 06-30-2021, 06:28 AM
Mandobart Mandobart is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Washington State
Posts: 5,424
Default

Seems like a very forward/pushy "luthier." Did they just jump in altering things or did you ask for their "help"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Ashton View Post
I am certainly no expert on this, but had my luthier at Kaufman Kamp change out the tailpiece on my Kentucky for one more "user friendly." He got one from Stewart/McDonald, which is much better than the pressed steel OEM one.
Those stamped tailpieces have been working just fine for thousands of players for nearly a century. But if you like the new one, fine. There are lots of better options to the Stew-Mac model as well.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Ashton View Post
He said the bridge location on mine was off, though I had never heard a problem...but I am just a beginner. He said the bridge should be right at the points of the F-holes, and every one I saw at Kamp was, though I know the OP's does not have that style of F-hole.
That's the starting point for your bridge. This is how they are always located on a fiddle, but those don't have frets so the player adjusts their fingers for correct intonation. On a fretted mandolin the bridge must be positioned for correct intonation, NOT for some arbitrary geometric alignment. As your mandolin top, neck and bridge settle, or you change string gage or action, you need to adjust the bridge position for intonation.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Ashton View Post
He also said the bridge base should sit firmly on the top and that the bridge saddle itself should be sitting on the base...not suspended on its threaded posts...this being best for transmitting string vibration into the top.
This is just wrong. The action is adjusted by the saddle height. Following this bad advice for some mandolin and bridge combinations will result in string buzzing or firmly planted on the frets. There are solid one-piece bridges made to the desired height for your mandolin and desired action if you really want to have no gap.

This guy is sadly misinformed and eagerly passing this misinformation to unsuspecting newbies! In every pursuit there are always those with little/incomplete knowledge inflating their egos by trying to impress those with less knowledge/experience. I'll bet they were thoroughly ignored by anyone there with any real experience.

I'm glad you're happy with your mando, but I hope you didn't pay a lot for this "luthier's" ignorance!
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 06-30-2021, 10:09 AM
keith.rogers's Avatar
keith.rogers keith.rogers is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,693
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Ashton View Post
I am certainly no expert on this, but had my luthier at Kaufman Kamp change out the tailpiece on my Kentucky for one more "user friendly." He got one from Stewart/McDonald, which is much better than the pressed steel OEM one.

He said the bridge location on mine was off, though I had never heard a problem...but I am just a beginner. He said the bridge should be right at the points of the F-holes, and every one I saw at Kamp was, though I know the OP's does not have that style of F-hole.

He also said the bridge base should sit firmly on the top and that the bridge saddle itself should be sitting on the base...not suspended on its threaded posts...this being best for transmitting string vibration into the top.

Just passing the info on for discussion, not experienced enough with mandos to know any different...but gotta say, mine sounds a lot better
Jeepers.

What @Mandobart said. The tech knows nothing about mandolins (and I probably wouldn't take a cigar-box guitar to them for re-stringing, based on what I read).
__________________
"I know in the morning that it's gonna be good, when I stick out my elbows and they don't bump wood." - Bill Kirchen
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 06-30-2021, 02:13 PM
Br1ck Br1ck is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: San Jose, Ca
Posts: 6,943
Default

With mandolins, problems worsen as you move up the neck. What was fine when I was starting, got worse as I moved up the neck. I had to fret level it twice. Being conservative, I got it playing well up to the tenth fret, then later I had to do it again to get it playing clean to the 14th. Over the first couple years of it's life, it developed a hump in the neck joint area that had to be leveled. You need to be able to set your intonation yourself. Jerry Rosa just had a stringing and intonation tutorial this week.
__________________
2007 Martin D 35 Custom
1970 Guild D 35
1965 Epiphone Texan
2011 Santa Cruz D P/W
Pono OP 30 D parlor
Pono OP12-30
Pono MT uke
Goldtone Paul Beard squareneck resophonic
Fluke tenor ukulele
Boatload of home rolled telecasters

"Shut up and play ur guitar" Frank Zappa
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Other Musical Instruments

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:42 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=