Intonation Question

[ctvolfan]

I have a Yamaha FGX5 that I absolutely love. I like to capo a lot but when I do, the low E string and I think it’s either the D or A strings go sharp. The low E string goes way sharper than it should. I know that some of this is normal but is it unusual for it to go as sharp as I’m experiencing? I’ve got and have had several others guitars and I’ve not had an issue with them to this extent.

I did have a technician do a setup several months ago but it really didn’t help. My question is, is it normal for certain strings to go sharp and should a good technician be able to correct this or significantly reduce the problem? Is it fixable? I really love this guitar but this is the only knock I have against it. Not a huge deal as of course I can just tune it but would be nice to not have to so much.

[Sev112]

Most capos can make the lower strings go sharp, and how you apply the capo makes a huge difference / impact

There is a Tommy emmanuel video somewhere on YouTube etc where he talks about applying capos so that they don’t make the strings go as sharp. He also says to stretch the strings once you’ve put the capo on, by pressing down on the, all with your palm

[rick-slo]

Don't have problem on other guitars, just this one. So not likely the capo or your placement of it at fault.

Does it do this at several capo position or mainly on the first fret or two?

If you capo the first fret and then bring all in tune at that fret and then move the the capo up to a higher fret or two how is the tuning then without retuning it again?

[Brent Hutto]

It can be as simple as the capo squeezing way too hard on the (thicker) bottom strings. What kind of capo do you use?

If you make a barre chord with your finger do you see similar intonation issues?

[ctvolfan]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Don't have problem on other guitars, just this one. So not likely the capo or your placement of it at fault.

Does it do this at several capo position or mainly on the first fret or two?

If you capo the first fret and then bring all in tune at that fret and then move the the capo up to a higher fret or two how is the tuning then without retuning it again?

It actually happens on multiple frets. I mostly capo the second third and fourth frets. I think it’s an issue on higher ones. When I get home I’ll check them all again and get a better idea.

[ctvolfan]

Originally Posted by Brent Hutto

It can be as simple as the capo squeezing way too hard on the (thicker) bottom strings. What kind of capo do you use?

If you make a barre chord with your finger do you see similar intonation issues?

I’ve noticed that it seems like it goes extra sharp even when barring. This one guitar just seems more of an issue than my others. I have played around with capo positions and tightness and even turned it upside down. Still goes sharp.

[Tuch]

Might be a high action[string height]at the nut is the cause for this.Lower the string height might be the solution here.

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by ctvolfan

It actually happens on multiple frets. I mostly capo the second third and fourth frets. I think it’s an issue on higher ones. When I get home I’ll check them all again and get a better idea.

Yes but do try the last thing I suggested in my post above to check the results.

[John Arnold]

The nut slot may be at fault. If the slot is not cut angled down enough, the string can vibrate in the slot, effectively increasing the length from the nut to the frets.
After eliminating any issue with the nut slot, compensation at the saddle Is usually the next step, followed by compensating the nut. For sharp intonation, either end point of the string must be moved down. At the saddle, that means moving the takeoff point away from the soundhole. At the nut, a shelf can be glued on the face of the nut to extend it over the end of the fingerboard. Trimming the upper end of the fingerboard is another option, but that is usually reserved for cases where all or most of the strings have sharp intonation.

[John Arnold]

Even on a dulcimer, there is no rational reason for the nut to be higher than the frets.

[ctvolfan]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Yes but do try the last thing I suggested in my post above to check the results.

I’ll be sure to try that and let you know what I find out. I will say that tuning while on the second or third fret has made a difference when moving the capo up so it may well be the strong height at nut that is the issue.

[ctvolfan]

Originally Posted by John Arnold

The nut slot may be at fault. If the slot is not cut angled down enough, the string can vibrate in the slot, effectively increasing the length from the nut to the frets.
After eliminating any issue with the nut slot, compensation at the saddle Is usually the next step, followed by compensating the nut. For sharp intonation, either end point of the string must be moved down. At the saddle, that means moving the takeoff point away from the soundhole. At the nut, a shelf can be glued on the face of the nut to extend it over the end of the fingerboard. Trimming the upper end of the fingerboard is another option, but that is usually reserved for cases where all or most of the strings have sharp intonation.

I plan on buying some tools a learning setups. Might be good practice on this issue.

[ctvolfan]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Don't have problem on other guitars, just this one. So not likely the capo or your placement of it at fault.

Does it do this at several capo position or mainly on the first fret or two?

If you capo the first fret and then bring all in tune at that fret and then move the the capo up to a higher fret or two how is the tuning then without retuning it again?

Okay I tried putting the capo on the first fret and tuned it and then moved it up to the second and third frets and there were still some intonation issues but not s as bad but still more than I like.

I always wonder if tuning with a capo and moving the capo causes the release of tension on the tuned strings from the capo being tight and causing the tuning to slip when you move it. It seems that maybe the strings get tuned from the pressure from the capo acting as the nut instead of the actual nut. If that makes any sense.

Of course taking the capo off of the first fret after tuning, the low E string went very low. I noticed that the first three strings stay put pretty good. The Low E, A and D strings are the ones that are off with the E being the worst by far.

I did play around with capo placement as far as angling it on the frets. I adjusted to different pressure and even put the capo on upside down. Angling the capo did seem to help some when I angled towards the nut on those low strings.

[rmp]

Originally Posted by Tuch

Might be a high action[string height]at the nut is the cause for this.Lower the string height might be the solution here.

this is probably the situation.

nut needs to be regulated (nut slots set to the correct depth)

[Robin, Wales]

Originally Posted by John Arnold

Even on a dulcimer, there is no rational reason for the nut to be higher than the frets.

You really needed to have told that to Homer Ledford. I can't tell you the number of folks who have lowered the nut on his dulcimers and then had the whole fretboard play out of tune, so ended up re-fretting the instrument! LOL!!!