Click track or not?

[dnf777]

Couple thoughts came to mind. Rudy already mentioned visual clicks, and I would add there are watches and bands that vibrate to beat also.

It took a Boss DR-01s to get me finally practicing with a timer. It has tons of acoustic friendly tones, and rather realistic as far as consumer grade machines go. You can also mute it and use a nice big LED flash alone. Ive used it for drum tracks, and with a foot switch, it works nicely.

[j3ffr0]

I almost always track to some kind of click track or drum beat on a grid. Once you are in a DAW, it is usually a pretty simple thing to replace the click track with a simple drum beat if that is your preference. Depending on the material, I do that now and then. But since the majority of my stuff is acoustic solo, a click track is usually the best fit for me.

[highvibrational]

Originally Posted by AcousticDreams

The click track is indeed a valid question. I have been using it when I write something new using Virtual instrumentation.
However, I find Click tracks bit frustrating.. The click track is NOT MUSICAL. Sometimes the click, clack....Clashes with some of the notes. Somewhat destroys the vibe.

So what I have been thinking about is adding a = no frills drum beat, as my click track.( I have already done this once creating a drum beat using my Damage 2 Orchestra drums) But that was a bit work to generate in perfect timing and then replicate it over and over.

There are these drum loops programs that one can buy. I just need to research which one will be the easiest to use and adjust. Later I plan to buy a programmable rock drum program. But first...just simple loops, no fills...just a steady drum beat that is easier to hear and work with. That steady drum beat will hopefully become a better click track.

Of course...it still has to be a nice sounding Drum loop/program. Otherwise it might also take away some feel when recording. Hopefully it will do just the opposite and inspire.

Exactly. I want to find a drum beat that inspires. Thank you.

[rmp]

it's better to have one that to not.

but that said, it does take some practice to be able to play with the click and still keep things flowing feel wise.

[highvibrational]

Originally Posted by jim1960

Depends entirely on what you're hoping to accomplish. If it's just you and a guitar, so long as you don't stray too noticeably, you can get away without a click. If you intend on overdubbing any instrumentation later (whether it's drums, bass, a second guitar, etc.), not playing to a click means a lot more work for both the player and the mixer.

I'll toss in this caveat... if you have aspirations to create fuller mixes down the road, learning to play to a click now is a good idea.

Thank you. Ultimately I am looking for my most high-vibe take when I record. Beauty, expression and strength are all important to me. The clicks I've used have made me feel hemmed in/irritated, so it's a matter of finding the right metronome sound or just doing away with it completely. I'll see how it goes.

[min7b5]

I’ve recorded both ways quite a bit. I do love a click though. I play better with one for sure. To me it’s about getting takes that feel relaxed. Having a rushed feel is the worst to me, and like most guitar players it can be my Achilles heel. I’m almost always practicing with a metronome just on the 2 & 4, and I love to recording with one headphone on/one off with a click on the 2 & 4. That said, I think most of the time (obviously all the time with video content) I’m just playing along with a click for a few minutes to find the pocket, then turning it off right before hitting record. Incidentally, I made a video about playing with the click on the 2 & 4 a few years ago: https://youtu.be/sWOa0vfv5FY?si=ZtnxiltosnYCDT7R

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by highvibrational

I appreciate all of your thoughts and suggestions. I'm going to find a metronome / click that has a more drumbeat sound rather than an annoying sound that drives me crazy. I tried this song tonight without any aids and would love to know your thoughts. https://youtu.be/ZmqtlUu0TBI

Thank you,
HV

I have a Snark SM-1 touch screen metronome that works well.

There are myriads of free backing drum tracks on Youtube to use, too.

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by min7b5

I’ve recorded both ways quite a bit. I do love a click though. I play better with one for sure. To me it’s about getting takes that feel relaxed. Having a rushed feel is the worst to me, and like most guitar players it can be my Achilles heel. I’m almost always practicing with a metronome just on the 2 & 4, and I love to recording with one headphone on/one off with a click on the 2 & 4. That said, I think most of the time (obviously all the time with video content) I’m just playing along with a click for a few minutes to find the pocket, then turning it off right before hitting record. Incidentally, I made a video about playing with the click on the 2 & 4 a few years ago: https://youtu.be/sWOa0vfv5FY?si=ZtnxiltosnYCDT7R

Excellent thoughts. That's what makes using a "visual only" metronome so nice, you can set it up out of your video frame and use it or not as you like.

[highvibrational]

Originally Posted by min7b5

I’ve recorded both ways quite a bit. I do love a click though. I play better with one for sure. To me it’s about getting takes that feel relaxed. Having a rushed feel is the worst to me, and like most guitar players it can be my Achilles heel. I’m almost always practicing with a metronome just on the 2 & 4, and I love to recording with one headphone on/one off with a click on the 2 & 4. That said, I think most of the time (obviously all the time with video content) I’m just playing along with a click for a few minutes to find the pocket, then turning it off right before hitting record. Incidentally, I made a video about playing with the click on the 2 & 4 a few years ago: https://youtu.be/sWOa0vfv5FY?si=ZtnxiltosnYCDT7R

Thank you for sharing, Eric. I enjoyed watching your video and admire your skills and discipline. I don't know what it is, but as soon as I heard your metronome, my blood pressure rose and I felt ill at ease. I'm not sure if that's something I need to work through or not. There's something torturous about that sound. My guitar heroes are people like James Taylor; I wonder if he practices with a metronome. Joni Mitchell I guess would not.

You talk about groove and I think a lot of what comes out of any of us is enhanced when we are relaxed and enjoying what we are performing. Maybe I will sacrifice timing for ease and enjoyment until I find a metronome that sounds good to my ears.

[mr. beaumont]

There's a phone app called Drumgenius that I love. It has hundreds of patterns---it has a definite jazz bias but it still has dozens of rock/pop/country/funk drum loops, plus a TON of world music stuff too.

Putting the click on 2 and 4 definitely sounds more musical to my ears, but if you can't get along with the click, drums are a great option.

[min7b5]

Originally Posted by Rudy4

…using a "visual only" metronome so nice, you can set it up out of your video frame…

For whatever reason I’ve never clicked (okay, terrible pun!) with a blinking metronome. Somehow my eyes are seemingly not wired to that part of my brain.

Originally Posted by highvibrational

..I heard your metronome, my blood pressure rose and I felt ill at ease. I'm not sure if that's something I need to work through or not. My guitar heroes are people like James Taylor; I wonder if he practices with a metronome. Joni Mitchell I guess would not. ..

Most great musicians have spent a lot of time working on rhythm, either in a very deliberate way, like metronome work, or maybe they played a large amount of gigs with good drummers in their life. And maybe a very small amount of people just have it.

Something I always tell my students (and probably said in that video) is if you’re not working on your groove you’re just practicing notes. I often tell people to not practice at all without it for a long time (I rarely practice without it). Inevitably after a month or so they say something like, “everyone says I sound better…”

I’ve played, and hung out with, with enough great bass players and drummers to know that we guitar players are notorious for our sense of time and pocket -not in a good way. When I used to play with the late great Carlton Jackson on drums https://youtu.be/uQjYDNHvB4g?si=BE6dt6M7CRCKICeT I would listen to a metronome in the car on the way to the gig because he scared me a little And I stilled rushed at times.. But I digress.

Make friends with the metronome boss. Just give it time. Everything in music practice takes a waaaay longer than most people -these days in particular- think it will. Give new things several weeks of regular daily work to bubble up even just a little in your playing. Everything is a long game - except buying gear, which is why that's so popular... But I digress again

[highvibrational]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

There's a phone app called Drumgenius that I love. It has hundreds of patterns---it has a definite jazz bias but it still has dozens of rock/pop/country/funk drum loops, plus a TON of world music stuff too.

Putting the click on 2 and 4 definitely sounds more musical to my ears, but if you can't get along with the click, drums are a great option.

Thank you very much! I will look into it. Love your playing on YouTube!

[mr. beaumont]

Originally Posted by min7b5

For whatever reason I’ve never clicked (okay, terrible pun!) with a blinking metronome. Somehow my eyes are seemingly not wired to that part of my brain.:

Me neither. Think my eyes are behind my hands by a second or two. They have those ones you wear now that vibrate...I haven't tried one, but that feels like it could work...

[highvibrational]

Originally Posted by min7b5

For whatever reason I’ve never clicked (okay, terrible pun!) with a blinking metronome. Somehow my eyes are seemingly not wired to that part of my brain.




Most great musicians have spent a lot of time working on rhythm, either in a very deliberate way, like metronome work, or maybe they played a large amount of gigs with good drummers in their life. And maybe a very small amount of people just have it.

Something I always tell my students (and probably said in that video) is if you’re not working on your groove you’re just practicing notes. I often tell people to not practice at all without it for a long time (I rarely practice without it). Inevitably after a month or so they say something like, “everyone says I sound better…”

I’ve played, and hung out with, with enough great bass players and drummers to know that we guitar players are notorious for our sense of time and pocket -not in a good way. When I used to play with the late great Carlton Jackson on drums https://youtu.be/uQjYDNHvB4g?si=BE6dt6M7CRCKICeT I would listen to a metronome in the car on the way to the gig because he scared me a little And I stilled rushed at times.. But I digress.

Make friends with the metronome boss. Just give it time. Everything in music practice takes a waaaay longer than most people -these days in particular- think it will. Give new things several weeks of regular daily work to bubble up even just a little in your playing. Everything is a long game - except buying gear, which is why that's so popular... But I digress again

Thank you, I will try. Drumgenius might be my solution.

[Sasquatchian]

When I first started recording myself without a click my timing was pretty poor so I started practicing with a metronome and using the click track in Logic and after a few months of that it just started getting both easier and better. I've found that when I'm perfectly in sync with the click that it just sort of disappears and I don't hear it anymore but as soon as I start to drift it becomes painfully apparent. While it's true that a click *can* make things stale or uninteresting, it can also make it so much easier for others to play with you when you're recording.

I make a lot of recordings of my wife recording her accordion for various tv shows, movie soundtracks, bands, singer songwriters, etc. and invariably there's a click - either an actual click track or just the sync'd metronome in Logic, and for her, that click plays a big part of assisting her to play in time with the backing tracks. A lot of the film soundtrack queues we record have click tracks where the tempo moves all over the map - four bars at 134bpm then six bars at 156 and then two bars at 125 - all designed to fit the rhythm of the visuals but also making it often impossible to play in a single pass so we generally either record the whole passage and then go back and punch in the mistakes or we just go until she screws up and then start punching in, and a lot of times the music is so complicated in terms of tempo and time signatures moving all over the place, and yes, the time sigs will often jump around as often as the tempos that those click tracks really become an essential tool. And she likes the click as loud as possible in the headphones - just under the threshold of bleeding out of the cans and into the mic's, so that's one of the first things I check on playback - to make sure we're not recording any of that.

More recently I've started using the drum loops in Logic or some of my friend Jake Reed's fabulous drum samples instead of a click track - for myself, and I find those drum loops or even just a single bass drum hit much easier to play along with than a simple click but either way is fine now.

I did hear an interview with Verdine White recently where he was talking about how they recorded all those early EW&F hits and how the band never once used a click track but preferred the band to breathe organically. Keith Richards says the same about the Stones and I generally agree with that but for us mere mortals, it can be a useful tool as in how Gee uses them for commercial recordings or how the rest of us can use them to improve our overall musicianship. And I also remember in reading Tamara Saviano's Guy Clark biography where Guy (and maybe Townes too) realized that he needed to up his playing skills on stage and took some time off to woodshed with a metronome just to work on his timing and that it really helped him as as stage performer.