The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > General Acoustic Guitar Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #136  
Old 09-20-2020, 03:53 AM
SprintBob's Avatar
SprintBob SprintBob is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 5,253
Default

I play with a capo over 90% of the time. Seems like one of the obvious reasons that’s not really been stressed as much is that a capo can make it so much easier for your left hand if you are struggling with a long stretch. Tune the guitar down a 1/2 to 1 step and add the capo and the frets are closer. I do this a lot when learning a solo fingerstyle song and don’t even tune down. I just play in a different key to work out my left hand mechanics and then from there decide if I want to move the capo further down the neck or eventually take it off.

Plus, when you are working on a difficult song and it’s getting kind of old, add the capo and play in a different key/voicing and the song will take on a new personality that can keep you motivated.

Capo’s are fun and for the most part make it easier for me, nothing wrong with that at all.
__________________
Doerr Trinity 12 Fret 00 (Lutz/Maple)
Edwinson Zephyr 13 Fret 00 (Adi/Coco)
Froggy Bottom H-12 (Adi/EIR)
Kostal 12 Fret OMC (German Spruce/Koa)
Rainsong APSE 12 Fret (Carbon Fiber)
Taylor 812ce-N 12 fret (Sitka/EIR Nylon)
Reply With Quote
  #137  
Old 09-20-2020, 09:25 AM
TBman's Avatar
TBman TBman is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 35,829
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SprintBob View Post
I play with a capo over 90% of the time. Seems like one of the obvious reasons that’s not really been stressed as much is that a capo can make it so much easier for your left hand if you are struggling with a long stretch. Tune the guitar down a 1/2 to 1 step and add the capo and the frets are closer. I do this a lot when learning a solo fingerstyle song and don’t even tune down. I just play in a different key to work out my left hand mechanics and then from there decide if I want to move the capo further down the neck or eventually take it off.

Plus, when you are working on a difficult song and it’s getting kind of old, add the capo and play in a different key/voicing and the song will take on a new personality that can keep you motivated.

Capo’s are fun and for the most part make it easier for me, nothing wrong with that at all.
I do the same Bob. Everything I play is instrumental solo guitar and most of the tunes I play are written with a capo specified by the arranger.
__________________
Barry

Sad Moments {Marianne Vedral cover}:


My SoundCloud page

Some steel strings, some nylon.
Reply With Quote
  #138  
Old 09-20-2020, 09:35 AM
RyanR RyanR is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 98
Default

For those who are tired of this topic:

To some degree having topics like this pop up (again) is a great sign for Acoustic Guitar Forum. Because it means new people are joining. Of course new people will want to talk about some of the most common issues and topics; the use of a capo seems to be one of them.

I’ve been an AGF user for a couple of years but have never seen this topic. But I don’t follow the forum every day. I “drop by” every so often to see what people are saying and maybe learn something. So to me this topic was interesting.

Just another perspective!
Reply With Quote
  #139  
Old 09-20-2020, 10:09 AM
Andromeda Andromeda is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Canandaigua NY
Posts: 14,272
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nchin241 View Post
Short answer: No, but...

Long answer: I think use of the capo tends to make the average guitar player less musically inclined to learn about chord relationships and theory as compared to other chordophonic instrument players. Lots of guitar players only learn cowboy chords and transpose them up/down with a capo to their optimal vocal range for singing, which is 100% legitimate and nothing that we should be turning our nose at obviously some of the greatest songwriters of all time have done that-- but the question you're asking is whether or not that qualifies them as being a "lesser player," and imo, the answer is... maybe?? One of the main advantages guitar has over other instruments is being able to transpose keys with almost no thought or effort. This type of thing however cheats the musician out of learning the same chord in different positions and voicings along the guitar, and how those chords and notes are related in the circle of 5ths. It's the main reason why I always tell folks to learn piano as a first instrument before anything else. Guitar is, and always will be a 'loaded' instrument because our Western ears are so accustomed to the sound. The voicing of an 'open G' chord is so ingrained into our musical culture that there's almost no chance of it going away in the next 2 or 3 lifetimes.

A hypothetical question for everyone on this forum-- How many of you know by heart every note on every fret for all 6 strings in standard tuning? Experientially, I've found that really only jazz and classical players can answer yes to that question because they're the folks who've put in the work playing scales and chord/extensions all up and down the fretboard to get a deeper understanding of the sounds the instrument is capable of producing. Now, don't misconstrue that statement to mean that jazz and classical are better than other genres-- but it is obvious to many that you need to spend quite a bit of time practicing to play that music. By comparison, I've got friends who don't even know how to tune a guitar but know how to play open 'C' 'D' and 'G' chords on guitar... Just sayin, is all I'm sayin..
I think you’re making some over generalizations. For myself I use a capo a lot for few reasons, one to find a key that hits the sweet spot for my voice and secondly I simply love the sound of a guitar with a capo on it. Lastly, I play mostly folk-country singer song writer music that have tons of songs that have great arrangements that require a capo.

Another thing to consider is what people aspire to with their guitar playing. I know a few people whose primary instrument is the piano...they dabble in the guitar. They’re content to play cowboy chords (I hate that term) and just strum and play their favorite song on the couch and on the porch.

Not everyone who plays the guitar aspires to be an expert or even one who performs publicly.

That’s the great thing about the guitar...it’s an instrument that you can still play and have fun with just learning the bare minimum to get by. Or you can delve ever deeper into the guitar and learn to master all its complexities.

Being a “lesser player” implies a lot of judgment. I say so what? If a person simply aspires to play the guitar in the simplest ways for their enjoyment I say we don’t judge them.

Some people will rise to greatness as a player due to talent + aspirations and goals. Some will be content strumming three chord songs due to talent + aspirations and desires. The guitar world is big enough for both and we need not judge where anyone is at in this continuum.
__________________
Liam F. 👽🖖🏼👑 🎶
Reply With Quote
  #140  
Old 09-20-2020, 10:35 AM
pjd3 pjd3 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 75
Default capo considerations

what I see a capo as is simply a movable nut. If the presence of a nut (which all guitars must have) doesn't make you a lesser player, than why would a movable nut do the same? No matter where you place the capo the relationship between the strings remains the same unless you change the relative tuning of the guitar. The only situation that I could see usage of a capo become an obstacle to progressive learning and skill is if someone only learned to play songs in a couple of different keys in non capo, and constantly moved the capo so that all or most songs played used the same chord finger shapes - like all songs starting with a C chord fingering. In this case the player may be blocking his/her own potential to learn all the various voicings and inversions that are possible. Of course, there have been many popular song where the key it is written in partly or greatly contributes to the character of the song due to the presence of open strings and chord voicings that the key of the song tend to illicit. That can be a charming thing though, and bring nostalgia to those listening. In my acoustic trio we will often very purposely have one of the guitars capo up much higher than the other just to introduce another "range" of guitar, just in the way you may add a soprano singer to your quartet for sonic variety and expanded range and chording.
And sometimes, say if someone is getting older and losing their range, they may use a capo to alter the key so that their newly compromised voice will live in a more comfortable place. A funny thing thats happening now is that at 63 my voice is becoming higher, and the other guitarist's voice is getting lower! He is losing his range, and I'm gaining. Cant explain that but, we will occasionally make room for that by trying different keys and occasionally changing the key to accommodate the vocal range - but only if that doesn't sacrifice an important character in the guitars.
So, although there may be a potential to to stunt some growth in guitar skill development, I see that there are allot more positive and creative reasons to use a capo than there are bad ones. Capo's can really expand the sonic pallette of your sound if used as an enhancement rather than a lazy compensation.
Kuddo's to the capo!

Best,
Phil
Reply With Quote
  #141  
Old 09-20-2020, 10:44 AM
hubcapsc's Avatar
hubcapsc hubcapsc is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: upstate SC
Posts: 2,688
Default

Here comes the sun without a capo ...

Reply With Quote
  #142  
Old 09-20-2020, 10:49 AM
SpruceTop SpruceTop is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rochester, New York
Posts: 12,340
Default

I love seeing the Ovation guitars in these interviews with Glen! Capos are necessary to play some styles of music in keys that are suited to the vocals of a given song. Bluegrass is an example of music in which a lot of the licks and runs would be near impossible or very difficult to play without using a capo.
__________________
Martin HD-28 Sunburst/Trance M-VT Phantom
Martin D-18/UltraTonic
Adamas I 2087GT-8
Ovation Custom Legend LX
Guild F-212XL STD
Huss & Dalton TD-R
Taylor 717e
Taylor 618e
Taylor 614ce
Larrivee D-50M/HiFi
Larrivee D-40R Blue Grass Special/HiFi
Larrivee D-40R Sunburst
Larrivee C-03R TE/Trance M-VT Phantom
RainSong BI-DR1000N2
Emerald X20
Yamaha FGX5
Republic Duolian/Schatten NR-2
Reply With Quote
  #143  
Old 09-20-2020, 10:54 AM
Pinetreebob Pinetreebob is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Maine
Posts: 404
Default One of the most accomplished guitarist around is this guy:

Richard Thompson uses a capo on occasion, nothing lesser about his playing!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0kJdrfzjAg
Reply With Quote
  #144  
Old 09-20-2020, 11:14 AM
RP's Avatar
RP RP is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Charlottesville, VA
Posts: 21,245
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Conquistador View Post
This issue comes up with some regularity...
I've been an AGF member for 14 years and can't recall seeing this as an issue before now....
__________________
Emerald X20
Emerald X20-12
Martin D18
Martin 000-15sm
Reply With Quote
  #145  
Old 09-20-2020, 11:30 AM
MartinGibsonFan MartinGibsonFan is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: 'Sconsin
Posts: 833
Default

The capo is a tool, just like a looper is a tool, or just like a special effects pedal is a tool.

Use them, but don't over use them (become a crutch to not progress).

My biggest crutch used to be special effects pedals (when I played electric back in the days when acne and teenage girls were my main concern)

I've grown up some, still get acne from time to time and still have problems with middle aged women

But, I've grown out of using crutches.

Sure, I pull out a special effects pedal and a looper every once in a while, mostly to advance my thinking of what I am playing.

But, not constantly.

MGF
Reply With Quote
  #146  
Old 09-20-2020, 11:41 AM
Andromeda Andromeda is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Canandaigua NY
Posts: 14,272
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RP View Post
I've been an AGF member for 14 years and can't recall seeing this as an issue before now....
A year or so ago someone brought up the issue here but they did it in a very aggressive and negative tone, pretty much deriding capo usage and users. It got real hot and was eventually closed. I do see this topic every now and then but it is a rare one.
__________________
Liam F. 👽🖖🏼👑 🎶
Reply With Quote
  #147  
Old 09-20-2020, 11:45 AM
Andromeda Andromeda is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Canandaigua NY
Posts: 14,272
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinGibsonFan View Post
The capo is a tool, just like a looper is a tool, or just like a special effects pedal is a tool.

Use them, but don't over use them (become a crutch to not progress).

My biggest crutch used to be special effects pedals (when I played electric back in the days when acne and teenage girls were my main concern)

I've grown up some, still get acne from time to time and still have problems with middle aged women

But, I've grown out of using crutches.

Sure, I pull out a special effects pedal and a looper every once in a while, mostly to advance my thinking of what I am playing.

But, not constantly.

MGF
What’s so wrong for people to use it as a crutch if they just want to keep it simple and just want to play some simple songs?

I’m just questioning the judgment here because this judgment is at the root of this capo debate. As long as there is a bit of stigma using one, calling it a crutch, at ANY skill level, then the perception that it’s usage is negative will continue.
__________________
Liam F. 👽🖖🏼👑 🎶
Reply With Quote
  #148  
Old 09-20-2020, 11:54 AM
RP's Avatar
RP RP is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Charlottesville, VA
Posts: 21,245
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andromeda View Post
A year or so ago someone brought up the issue here but they did it in a very aggressive and negative tone, pretty much deriding capo usage and users. It got real hot and was eventually closed. I do see this topic every now and then but it is a rare one.
I must have been napping or off swimming, but your comments (and my memory) are different than "it comes up with some regularity."
__________________
Emerald X20
Emerald X20-12
Martin D18
Martin 000-15sm
Reply With Quote
  #149  
Old 09-20-2020, 11:56 AM
MartinGibsonFan MartinGibsonFan is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: 'Sconsin
Posts: 833
Default

I drive an automatic car (crutch) as opposed to manual.

I am not offended.

Not sure why you find my response offending?



MGF
Reply With Quote
  #150  
Old 09-20-2020, 11:57 AM
LakewoodM32Fan LakewoodM32Fan is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 1,796
Default

Ms. Tuttle and Mr. Taylor use capos frequently. If they're lesser, I'm proud to be lesser as well.
__________________
Santa Cruz | Huss & Dalton | Lakewood
Fan (and customer) of:
-Charmed Life Picks
-Organic Sounds Select Guitars
-Down Home Guitars
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > General Acoustic Guitar Discussion

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:47 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=