LIV Golf

[Gitfiddlemann]

LIV Golf

I see the emergence of this rival Golf tour as a real existential threat to the PGA Tour.
Two reasons:
- Enough money to overcome any loyalty pangs. Case in point: Dustin Johnson. Some emerging and fading stars, like Sergio (good riddance), have also bit in.
- Enough prestige, because the big names are able to still play all the Majors. They can have their cake and eat it too.

The Tour will have to put its foot down to save itself. Getting sponsors to fight Saudi money is a losing battle.
Their only hope is to crimp the appearance of the marquee players into the Majors. That will be difficult enough to negotiate with the 4 of them.

If they can’t do that, it’s sayonara imo. They will lose many of the big stars, because money and especially prestige (Majors) are all they really care about.

I never cared for Greg Norman that much. I thought he was overrated as a golfer, especially all his choking episodes on the grand stages.
But it’s hard to fault his business acumen. He has created a real threat to the Tour imo.

[jseth]

It is a unique and interesting situation for professional golf, certainly. Given who the promoters are, given the obvious delineation of playing strictly for the money, given the turning of backs to the PGA Tour, it is a statement to be sure.

I think that in practise it won't bear much fruit. Of the many attractions for me of different tournaments is the fact that, on any given day, Mr. Nobody is gonna beat the top-ranked players... one of the brilliant things about the game. Put only the highest ranking players in a field and you'll lose that dynamic, as well as "the drive" to make it, to win, that propels many young players. In fact, the enormous purses today are such that one win and many promising players are done...

I know that to play a sport professionally is to commit to the money aspect of it. However, the world's greatest players have always seemed to transcend that aspect of being a pro; to become something more, something that speaks to the history and legacy of the game.

Whatever happens with LIV golf, I'm certain that The Game will be just fine; after all, it's been around for ~800+ years at this stage!!!

I haven't seen any adverts mentioning television coverage... wonder if this week's event will be covered?

[AX17609]

This sort of thing has happened in most pro sports, hasn't it. Tennis fractured, first with the emergence of the ATP in the 1960s and then with the formation of a rival tour in the early '70s organized by Bill Riordan and starring Jimmy Connors. Football had to deal with the AFL, USFL and XFL. Basketball had to address the emergence of the the ABA, and hockey had to deal with the rival WHL. Even auto racing had to deal with a split in the IndyCar circuit in the 1990s. I think that of the major pro sports, only major league baseball has remained more or intact.

[Gitfiddlemann]

Originally Posted by jseth

It is a unique and interesting situation for professional golf, certainly. Given who the promoters are, given the obvious delineation of playing strictly for the money, given the turning of backs to the PGA Tour, it is a statement to be sure.

I think that in practise it won't bear much fruit. Of the many attractions for me of different tournaments is the fact that, on any given day, Mr. Nobody is gonna beat the top-ranked players... one of the brilliant things about the game. Put only the highest ranking players in a field and you'll lose that dynamic, as well as "the drive" to make it, to win, that propels many young players. In fact, the enormous purses today are such that one win and many promising players are done...

I know that to play a sport professionally is to commit to the money aspect of it. However, the world's greatest players have always seemed to transcend that aspect of being a pro; to become something more, something that speaks to the history and legacy of the game.

Whatever happens with LIV golf, I'm certain that The Game will be just fine; after all, it's been around for ~800+ years at this stage!!!

I haven't seen any adverts mentioning television coverage... wonder if this week's event will be covered?

I wish I shared your optimism in the outcome, but I agree that the Game will survive. After all, it's not just about those pros.
I just read that the USGA will allow all qualified participants into the US Open, regardless of their affiliations. That's what I was expecting. I'm sure the R&A will rule the same for The Open. It wouldn't make much sense otherwise based on their current rules for qualifying. Norman has all the angles covered.
Re: Television coverage
Last I heard they hadn't released those details, but if they do televise it will likely be on one of the streaming platforms.

[Lkristians]

My son was reading me some of the nuances, so I am weighing in with some ignorance, but he mentioned the players being put into teams of 4? Also, most interesting to me was they will be 3 day events. That is smart, imo.

[Gitfiddlemann]

Originally Posted by AX17609

This sort of thing has happened in most pro sports, hasn't it. Tennis fractured, first with the emergence of the ATP in the 1960s and then with the formation of a rival tour in the early '70s organized by Bill Riordan and starring Jimmy Connors. Football had to deal with the AFL, USFL and XFL. Basketball had to address the emergence of the the ABA, and hockey had to deal with the rival WHL. Even auto racing had to deal with a split in the IndyCar circuit in the 1990s. I think that of the major pro sports, only major league baseball has remained more or intact.

Yes, and it's not even Norman's first rodeo. Back in the mid 90's he tried to form a World Golf Tour (top players, smaller events, bigger purse) which fizzled out.
This time, he came loaded for bear. He has the money, and the truly prestige events (all 4 Majors) in the bag.
It's like a chess game now, and it just feels to me like the Tour is getting outmaneuvered.

[Gitfiddlemann]

Originally Posted by Lkristians

My son was reading me some of the nuances, so I am weighing in with some ignorance, but he mentioned the players being put into teams of 4? Also, most interesting to me was they will be 3 day events. That is smart, imo.

3 day events, 54 holes, correct. Thus the name LIV (54 in Roman numerals).
Haven't heard about teams of 4 though. That's a new one on me.

[frankmcr]

Wasn't this discussed here not long ago?
And the conclusion then was that it was going nowhere?

I thought it was a proposed golf tour IN Saudi Arabia & posted that the weather might be a problem, is why I remember.

[Gitfiddlemann]

Originally Posted by frankmcr

Wasn't this discussed here not long ago?
And the conclusion then was that it was going nowhere?

I thought it was a proposed golf tour IN Saudi Arabia & posted that the weather might be a problem, is why I remember.

I don't recall such a thread, but from your description it might have been at a time when the details weren't very well known. I apologize if I'm bringing up old news again.
The first tournament, next week, is near London. I don't recall seeing other venues mentioned. It would seem likely that one of their events would be staged in Saudi Arabia. They don't have a lot of courses, but a few of them are championship caliber. Also, there probably will be a limited amount of tournaments, at least in the beginning, spread out over the course of the year, so maybe the events in that part of the world would be staged with more comfortable weather in mind.
I'm just speculating though. These details have not yet emerged from what I've read.
I was more concerned with the new league really having a negative impact on the PGA tour going forward. As we are seeing now, player loyalties to the Tour, despite earlier pronouncements to the contrary, are not a good foundation to rely on. Some kind of intervention will likely be necessary to make sure sponsor and TV broadcast needs are met. The players are their biggest assets, but they are independent contractors to a large extent.
I hope I'm wrong, but I think there's a migraine brewing.

[frankmcr]

Oh, I'm not criticizing!
Just that last I saw on here was that the idea had collapsed, that hardly any pros were interested, and that it was kind of a black eye for Norman.
I guess that's all changed? Or maybe I imagined it . . . I did a forum search here for Saudi, and then for Arabia, & saw nothing, so maybe I did . . . but there aren't any other forums I look at where such a topic would even have come up, so I don't know.

[imwjl]

I almost always reads labels and fine print, the Saudi money is a red flag so no interest here.

Golf is always case by case for me. When I was a kid I remember my grandfather point out area country clubs still had restricted signs and learning that meant us. The municipal golf courses seem like much better institutions so I support them.

[12barBill]

Originally Posted by imwjl

I almost always reads labels and fine print, the Saudi money is a red flag so no interest here.

Golf is always case by case for me. When I was a kid I remember my grandfather point out area country clubs still had restricted signs and learning that meant us. The municipal golf courses seem like much better institutions so I support them.

I don't understand the need to inject that into this thread. It is not pertinent nor appropriate and unnecessarily inflammatory. The thread is about the LIV golf tour in 2022.

[imwjl]

Originally Posted by 12barBill

I don't understand the need to inject that into this thread. It is not pertinent nor appropriate and unnecessarily inflammatory. The thread is about the LIV golf tour in 2022.

I think it's okay to have a bias for iterations of the sport that are grass roots for lack of a better description, and not associated with deep controversy I realize some people don't or maybe can't understand.

At a high level I don't care for big budget and celebrity sports but for golf, I'll remain a supporter of my area's courses and programs with the kids programs and community leagues. I can't see the sort of hurt this league's failure would be like I did with recent years involvement to not totally eliminate some public courses in my area.

There might be a good parallel with the music focus of this forum. I'm far more a fan and have concerns for the small place a mile away where even AGF members here have performed than concern for the challenges of a big ticket places were top and at times controversial celebrities perform.

[LiveMusic]

Originally Posted by 12barBill

I don't understand the need to inject that into this thread. It is not pertinent nor appropriate and unnecessarily inflammatory. The thread is about the LIV golf tour in 2022.

Uh, huh? There is nothing in his post that is not apropos regarding his thoughts that came from reading and responding to this thread.

As for the barbarian Saudis, I am no fan either.

[Mr. Jelly]

I do not support anything Martha Stewart is involved in because of her insider trading years ago. Obviously that has something to say about the type of person she is. I turn the channel etc. I do the same with many entertainers. I can quit easily not watch golf if it come to that. It won't effect the quality of my life in the least. And an argument can be made that these types of actions enhance the quaity of my life.