Dead note on Low E

[stringjunky]

Originally Posted by jsanfilippo5

So just wated to update.. I tried what a previous player mentioned and put a piece of papaer over part of the sound hole - it worked! no more dead note!! Mind is blown.

Alan knows his stuff when comes to guitar technics.

[Jambi]

I have a dead fret on the low 'E' (relative, it's a C# in this case) 10th fret. How do I know if it's this cancellation or if the actual fret is hosed?

[jsanfilippo5]

Originally Posted by Jambi

I have a dead fret on the low 'E' (relative, it's a C# in this case) 10th fret. How do I know if it's this cancellation or if the actual fret is hosed?

10tH FRET on low E would be a D note. But Tune your Low E to D and your Dead note should now be on 12th fret. If it isnt its likely a fret.

[jsanfilippo5]

Originally Posted by Jambi

I have a dead fret on the low 'E' (relative, it's a C# in this case) 10th fret. How do I know if it's this cancellation or if the actual fret is hosed?

Also - I find this interesting - I had a Larrivee guitar (i see you have a larrivee in your sig) That had a dead note on the same string fret... I also now have 2 martins that have a dead note on fret 3 low E.

[GHS]

Originally Posted by jsanfilippo5

Also - I find this interesting - I had a Larrivee guitar (i see you have a larrivee in your sig) That had a dead note on the same string fret... I also now have 2 martins that have a dead note on fret 3 low E.

How can that be??? Isn't every Martin built with "G" runs in mind??? A dead low G?? Say it isn't so!!!!

[Penrith Pete]

Originally Posted by GHS

How can that be??? Isn't every Martin built with "G" runs in mind??? A dead low G?? Say it isn't so!!!!

Yeah, they do it to encourage G-runs so you don't just hang about strumming on that low (dead) G! :-)

Seriously though, I have noticed this on most guitars to some extent with the main issues occurring anywhere from F# to A on the low E. On a guitar I currently own, it is accentuated with Elixirs for some reason.

Also, I think it is not solely to do with pitch as when I am in different tunings, playing the identical note in a different place on the fretboard (say 2 fret's higher when in drop-D) reduces the effect a little.

So, although I think it is primarily a resonance issue, I also think it is something to do with the neck vibrating instead of the body in certain combinations of string length when fretted and other smaller factors like string brand (and probably tension)....which I suppose are all resonance issues really to be fair.

I once owned a Simon and Patrick where the the issues was virtually non-existent and it has been limited on Furch-built guitars but most other guitars have had some of it going on.

[GHS]

I have six acoustic guitars. Have not noticed any dead notes on any of them. The most interesting thing I have noticed is that the guitar with the best intonation, spot on open and at the twelve fret, is my Yamaha FG730s. The cheapest of the bunch is spot on. Go Figure???

[Penrith Pete]

oh yes, Yamaha! I had an LL6xa which had very little of this and great intonation.

I sold it and I am sorry actually. The guitar was a bit compressed and muted acoustically and I put this down partly to the relatively high weight of the ART electronics. I often could not hear it at sessions etc and most of my playing was done acoustically. However, I am yet to find anything nearly as good plugged in - it has really left a hole!

Anyway, yes, the Yamaha had pretty even response all over the board.

[jaycal]

Originally Posted by GHS

I have six acoustic guitars. Have not noticed any dead notes on any of them. The most interesting thing I have noticed is that the guitar with the best intonation, spot on open and at the twelve fret, is my Yamaha FG730s. The cheapest of the bunch is spot on. Go Figure???

My cheapo ‘80s Yamaha has better intonation than my Martin and Huss & Dalton. Pretty crazy.

[Placida]

Originally Posted by jsanfilippo5

So just wated to update.. I tried what a previous player mentioned and put a piece of papaer over part of the sound hole - it worked! no more dead note!! Mind is blown.

That is amazing. Good call from Alan.

Now, other than keeping a cardboard sound hole modification on the guitar, what's the permanent fix?

[Jambi]

Originally Posted by jsanfilippo5

10tH FRET on low E would be a D note. But Tune your Low E to D and your Dead note should now be on 12th fret. If it isnt its likely a fret.

No, I meant C# because I detune to C#. DADGAD actually, a half step down.

[Alan Carruth]

There are a couple of permanent fixes you can use. One is easy and temporary, and the other is a bit more work and permanent.

There is a preliminary check you can do that will help. Put the guitar down on your lap or a table on it's back. Pinch the low E string between your left thumb and finger down near the nut, and pluck it with your right thumb. You should hear a sort of pitched 'thunk'. Move the pinch point up and down the string while plucking it, trying to be as consistent as possible in the pluck. The sound of the string should become noticeably louder when you pinch it is a certain spot. That's the pitch of the 'main air' resonance. You can determine the pitch from the location pretty well, or use a tuner. Find out what that pitch is when the hole is open, and when it's partly closed with the piece of paper or card stock. Covering part of the hole should drop that pitch.

The easy fix is to make a short cylindrical sleeve out of cardboard that just fits into the hole. I'd start with it about 1-1/2" (~38mm) long. Tape it in place in the hole and check the 'air' pitch. It will probably be much lower than it was with the open hole, and even lower than it was with the hole partly covered . Trim down the length of the sleeve a little, and try it again. When you get it right you can tape the sleeve in for a semi-permanent fix. If you make the sleeve out of black poster cardboard, or clear plastic, it will not show very much.

A more permanent fix is to loosen up the back of the guitar a bit by shaving one or more braces. To see if this will work you can try adding some mass to the back on the outside, just over the location of the third (counting from the upper end) brace, in the center of the back. Poster adhesive is good for this. Again, you can do the 'air' mode test to see what the objective change is, as well as listening to the effect. Once you've found the minimum pitch change that will give you the sound you want you can shave a little material from the middle of the back brace to get to the same pitch. Obviously, this will void the warranty, so you want to think about it for a while. This is usually the most effective and safest way to drop the 'air' mode pitch, though. shaving top braces can work the same way, but it's riskier.

[jsanfilippo5]

Originally Posted by Alan Carruth

There are a couple of permanent fixes you can use. One is easy and temporary, and the other is a bit more work and permanent.

There is a preliminary check you can do that will help. Put the guitar down on your lap or a table on it's back. Pinch the low E string between your left thumb and finger down near the nut, and pluck it with your right thumb. You should hear a sort of pitched 'thunk'. Move the pinch point up and down the string while plucking it, trying to be as consistent as possible in the pluck. The sound of the string should become noticeably louder when you pinch it is a certain spot. That's the pitch of the 'main air' resonance. You can determine the pitch from the location pretty well, or use a tuner. Find out what that pitch is when the hole is open, and when it's partly closed with the piece of paper or card stock. Covering part of the hole should drop that pitch.

The easy fix is to make a short cylindrical sleeve out of cardboard that just fits into the hole. I'd start with it about 1-1/2" (~38mm) long. Tape it in place in the hole and check the 'air' pitch. It will probably be much lower than it was with the open hole, and even lower than it was with the hole partly covered . Trim down the length of the sleeve a little, and try it again. When you get it right you can tape the sleeve in for a semi-permanent fix. If you make the sleeve out of black poster cardboard, or clear plastic, it will not show very much.

A more permanent fix is to loosen up the back of the guitar a bit by shaving one or more braces. To see if this will work you can try adding some mass to the back on the outside, just over the location of the third (counting from the upper end) brace, in the center of the back. Poster adhesive is good for this. Again, you can do the 'air' mode test to see what the objective change is, as well as listening to the effect. Once you've found the minimum pitch change that will give you the sound you want you can shave a little material from the middle of the back brace to get to the same pitch. Obviously, this will void the warranty, so you want to think about it for a while. This is usually the most effective and safest way to drop the 'air' mode pitch, though. shaving top braces can work the same way, but it's riskier.

Thanks!! Going to look into this.

[rick-slo]

Beware that in modifications you just may move a dead note to a different fret. FWIW my collection of guitar's Helmholtz in the G to A range but without a corresponding dead note other than a slight decrease in sustain. Your particular guitar seems to be giving up the ghost at a particular pitch, but that is not the usual case for most guitars.

[Alan Carruth]

Those resonant peaks are normally fairly narrow, covering a semitone or less with a strong response. Positioning the peak resonant frequency right between played notes usually alleviates the problem.